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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.xs3.de!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Life: Turn it upside down! Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2024 22:41:27 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 22 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <uv4cm7$fj9s$1@dont-email.me> References: <uv3bk0$79c9$1@dont-email.me> <uv3dk7$7pdd$1@dont-email.me> <uv3sco$bgum$1@dont-email.me> <uv40ng$ciks$1@dont-email.me> Reply-To: {$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="89415"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:jS9PpjZuCYo5J1imb4XiEGU2TBM= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id E6E5822976C; Tue, 9 Apr 2024 17:41:24 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0EC1229758 for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Tue, 9 Apr 2024 17:41:22 -0400 (EDT) id 5687C5DCE2; Tue, 9 Apr 2024 21:41:31 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay-1.kamens.us (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35DF05DCBE for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Tue, 9 Apr 2024 21:41:31 +0000 (UTC) id 33A4ADC01A9; Tue, 9 Apr 2024 23:41:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2024 21:41:28 +0200 (CEST) Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: <uv40ng$ciks$1@dont-email.me> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX19rniE+X5+3DTs2Ux9FL99rfpbwhxDzwzbHRUZYXE8tHqPaDjOd4IBJsdw7AjkJex9W84FLwD5iYw== Bytes: 2937 On 09/04/2024 19:17, Arkalen wrote: > > Sorry, I thought you'd excluded viruses with the "step down from there" > bit. The gulf is still huge between viruses and cellular life but I > guess it's true the gulf between cellular life and nonlife is smaller if > you include them. The issue in terms of abiogenesis is that it's unclear > whether they're true intermediates or if they arose after or parallel to > cellular life. It's conceivable that all three models for the origins of viruses (relicts of pre-cellular life, highly reduced descendants of parasitic cells, rogue genes) are true, for different groups of viruses. Mimivirus has a bigger genome and more genes than some cellular organisms, including some genes involved in metabolism and in protein synthesis. This, and nucleocytoplasmic large DNA viruses in general, seem to go some of the way in filling the gap between viruses in general and cellular organisms. -- alias Ernest Major