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From: Arkalen <arkalen@proton.me>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Life: Turn it upside down!
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2024 15:22:06 +0200
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On 13/04/2024 11:21, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 11/04/2024 14:41, Arkalen wrote:
>>>> I agree those are much more similar than I'd been thinking; I was 
>>>> thinking of viruses as they are outside of the cell but you're right 
>>>> that when you consider their activity inside of the cell then 
>>>> there's much less reason to say that activity isn't "metabolism". 
>>>> Except for that whole "meta" part of "metabolism" : does mimivirus 
>>>> do catabolism? Do intracellular parasites?
>>>>
>>>> I'll look it up after posting but I notice you point out the 
>>>> difference that intracellular parasites have their own cytoplasm. I 
>>>> will hazard the guess that this means they have their own 
>>>> *membranes*, and further hazard the guess that they use respiration 
>>>> to generate a proton motive force across that membrane to regenerate 
>>>> ATP. I could see it if they didn't, after all they can get ATP from 
>>>> the host cell can't they. But if they do, that would be metabolism 
>>>> with the "meta".
>>>
>>> Microsporidia have lost the ability to generate their own ATP. The 
>>> same is said of Giardia.
>>
>> Do you have a cite on that? This paper suggests that Giardia does have 
>> metabolism, using fermentation (but then maybe it varies by Giardia 
>> species, this paper seems to be looking at one specific one):
>>
>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC88984/
>>
>> It explicitly describes it as generating its own ATP unless I'm 
>> seriously missing something:
>>
>> "However, certain eukaryotes, including Trichomonas spp., Entamoeba 
>> spp., and Giardia spp., are characterized by their lack of 
>> mitochondria and cytochrome-mediated oxidative phosphorylation. They 
>> rely on fermentative metabolism (even when oxygen is present) for 
>> energy conservation. Glycolysis and its brief extensions generate ATP, 
>> with generation dependent only on substrate level phosphorylation."
>>
> 
> I'd misinterpreted this, by not paying sufficient attention to the 
> context of a statement "but there is no ATP production".
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8404698/
> 
> In my defence, your mention of respiration above distracted me from 
> considering non-mitochondrial (non-respiratory) ATP production. Not all 
> intracellular parasites act as you proposed, but I overstepped the mark 
> in baldly stating that they don't produce ATP.

To further strengthen your defense, when I made that comment about 
membranes I had also forgotten there were other ways of making ATP :)