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From: Mark Isaak <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Making your mind up
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 16:50:12 -0700
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On 4/26/24 4:27 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:32:27 -0700, the following appeared
> in talk.origins, posted by Mark Isaak
> <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net>:
> [...]
>>
>> I get the feeling that predetermination means, to you, that if I am
>> predetermined to choose to buy this house (say), then no matter what I
>> think, or even if I don't think at all, I will end up deciding to buy
>> that house. I could move to Tibet, scramble my brain with acid, and
>> spend all my conscious time playing Candy Crush, and still, in a day or
>> two, the though will come to me, "I need to buy that house."
>>
>> That's not how predeterminism works. In a predetermined world, I find
>> myself in need or want of a house, contact a realtor who shows me
>> available listings; I visit those houses which are in good price range
>> and neighborhoods; probably I am influenced by external factors such as
>> the amount of traffic I had to fight through to get there or how hungry
>> I am at the time. The good and bad points of the different houses being
>> fed into my mind, I eliminate some obvious non-candidates, and let my
>> gut guide me to the best of the remaining.
>>
>> That is predetermination at work.  Note that it appears, to all
>> observers, exactly the same as non-predetermination. That's why the Free
>> Will issue has never been resolved.
>>
> So, if I'm understanding that correctly, there is no
> difference between determinism and non-determinism (or if
> you prefer, determination and non-determination), and
> therefore "free will" is a bugaboo which is not accepted
> although its implications are?

No detectable difference between the two. And I should have added "free 
will" is also wrapped up in religious, personal angst, and equivocation 
issues, which also contribute to making it a bugaboo.

-- 
Mark Isaak
"Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between 'That
doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.'" - Mary Doria Russell