Article <v00kdk$3neoi$1@dont-email.me>

Deutsch English Français Italiano
<v00kdk$3neoi$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article
Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail
From: RonO <rokimoto@cox.net>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Wickramasinghe may have been right.
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 09:45:08 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 69
Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org
Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org
Message-ID: <v00kdk$3neoi$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89";
	logging-data="15964"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Cancel-Lock: sha1:zgPxzWqqaawc4jNwj4xQSf2VWNU=
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 5603

We can hark back to the Arkansas creation science federal court case. It 
wasn't necessary, but when Wichramasinghe was testifying in support of 
the creationist legislation he was made to look foolish by making him 
admit to some of his stranger beliefs.  One joke line was his belief 
that insects were smarter than we thought, and they were clever enough 
not to let us know it.

Some researchers are trying to establish a new concept of consciousness. 
  It would allow a lot of animals to be sentient including insects.

We know that bees have a language, and other insects can communicate via 
phermones.  Attenborough's nature series have shown fish using tools, 
and octopus collaborating with fish and sea snakes collaborating with 
fish to hunt.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/animal-consciousness-scientists-push-new-paradigm-rcna148213

https://sites.google.com/nyu.edu/nydeclaration/declaration

Looks like the way they catch crabs on Deadliest Catch will have to 
change.  We might be reduced to eating yeast and bacterial cakes until 
they wake up to the fact that single celled organisms also sense and 
react to their environment.

It should be noted by animal advocates that pretty much all of these 
"sentient" animals kill each other for food.  Ants even take slaves.  Is 
it ethical to condemn the dominant species just because they are more 
efficient at harvesting the others?

QUOTE:
Third, when there is a realistic possibility of conscious experience in 
an animal, it is irresponsible to ignore that possibility in decisions 
affecting that animal. We should consider welfare risks and use the 
evidence to inform our responses to these risks.
END QUOTE:

What they should likely be working on is why using these animals has to 
be restricted, and why welfare risks should be considered if you are not 
utilizing more than you need.  Why should welfare take precedence over 
efficiency in human existence?  It is a double standard that they can't 
apply to all the other species that they claim are sentient.  We are 
just another lifeform on this planet.  Lynx do not have to worry about 
the stress they put on the rabbits.

I personally believe that we should treat all lifeforms as humanely as 
possible, and that we should do everything that we can to ensure that 
other species have their fair chance at surviving in nature, but I know 
that I can't place those same values on all the other species on this 
planet.  They are talking about killing wolves in order to help the 
caribou population recover.  The first Yellowstone pack likely died out 
due to inbreeding.  The wolf population shouldn't be reduced any further 
than it already has been reduced.  They have already been decimated. 
They need all the genetic diversity that they have left.  They want to 
kill hundreds of thousands of barred owls in the North West just because 
they are out competing the local spotted owls.  What seems to be stupid 
about the owls is that both spotted and barred are likely reestablishing 
themselves in the area after the last cold period.  They are both coming 
from the south where they survived during the last ice age.  One from 
the east and one from the west.  The spotted owls got there first 
because the barred owls had to wait for the northern Canadian forests to 
reestablish after being covered by a mile of ice.  Now the barred owls 
are out competing their spotted cousins.  The barred owls are probably 
going to need the hundreds of thousands that they want to kill in order 
to preserve the genetic diversity that they will need to survive the 
next ice age when their current territory will be wiped out and buried 
under ice, they will be beaten back, and they will have to compete with 
their relatives that never left the south.

Ron Okimoto