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From: The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: From the Archives .....
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 23:44:51 -0000 (UTC)
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The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <v0881g$1ju4d$2@dont-email.me>,
> The True Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>> On 22/04/2024 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:
>>> The True Doctor wrote on 21/4/24 10:45 am:
>>>> On 21/04/2024 01:21, Blueshirt wrote:
>>>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>> I go with 4 Doctors taking on Morbius!
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can take from that scene whatever you like... it doesn't
>>>>> change the way the scene was conceived. There is no Doctor Who
>>>>> bible so whatever works for you and your enjoyment of the show
>>>>> is fine. We are all free to make our own head-canon.
>>>> 
>>>> What there is are established facts. 

Implied beliefs, it turns out. Not facts.

No regenerations existed before 
>>>> Hartnell as stated by Hartnell in The Tenth Planet and the 1st Doctor 
>>>> in The Five Doctors.

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

>>> 
>>> Hey, Aggy, in "An Unearthly Child" or any of the other William Hartnell 
>>> Episodes, did DoctorBill state that he was the First Incarnation of The 
>>> Doctor or that he could, in fact, regenerate (pick a number, any number) 
>>> of times at all?? Did he mention that ability at any time during his 
>>> reign??

No.

>> It was implied from the very beginning that the character Hartnell 
>> played was like any other human, other than the fact that he was a 
>> fugitive from another world, as was his biological grand daughter Susan.

That’s true. Did Aggie stop watching when it was revealed that the Doctor
was an alien with two hearts who could regenerate? 

What a complete retcon and destruction of the character and the show!
Doctor Who must have ended in 1966 when Hartnell regenerated!

>>> Or was this "ability" ONLY mentioned AFTER Bill Hartnell had left??
>> 
>> His possession of ability to perform bodily renewal is stated by 
>> Hartnell in at the end of The Tenth Planet, as is the fact that he did 
>> not know if it would work since he'd never had to perform it before, 
>> just before he is shown to rejuvenate himself. Troughton was intended to 
>> be a de-aged version of Hartnell.

That’s all a load of horsefeathers. Hartnell says nothing about his ability
to perform a renewal or whether he’d ever done it before.

Here’s everything the Doctor says at the end of The Tenth Planet. He’s just
been rescued from captivity in the Cyberman ship. 

DOCTOR: What did you say, my boy? It's all over. It's all over. That's what
you said. No, but it isn't all over. It's far from being all over.
BEN: What are you taking about?
DOCTOR: I must get back to the Tardis immediately!
POLLY: All right, Doctor.
DOCTOR: Yes, I must go now.
BEN: Aren't we going to go back to say goodbye or anything?
DOCTOR: No. No, I must go at once.
BEN: Oh well, you better have this. We don't want you catching your death
of cold.
(Ben hands the Doctor his cloak.)
DOCTOR: Ah, yes. Thank you. It's good. Keep warm.
(The Doctor leaves.)

Near the start of the episode he says everything else that is said about
his bodily condition:

POLLY: What's happened to you, Doctor?
DOCTOR: Oh, I'm not sure, my dear. Comes from an outside influence. Unless
this old body of mine is wearing a bit thin.
POLLY: What do you mean, wearing a bit thin?
DOCTOR: Oh, don't worry child, don't worry, don't worry.

No mention of renewal or how many times it’s happened. At all.

And Pat Troughton was never intended to be a de-aged Hartnell. In The Power
of the Doctor it’s made clear right away that he’s a completely different
personality and Ben has great difficulty believing he even is the Doctor.

>> When Troughton is interrogated by the Time Lords at the end of The War 
>> Games no past forms of the Doctor are shown except those of Troughton 
>> and Hartnell. 

As far as I can recall no past forms of the Doctor are shown at all.
There’s discussion of his actions and the Doctor shows mental images of
recent foes: starting feebly with Quarks and Yeti, moving on to Ice
Warriors, Cybermen and Daleks. 

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

>> In The Three Doctors it is also demonstrated that there 
>> are were only ever 3 incarnations of the Doctor at this time, and 
>> Hartnell was the earliest. 

That is correct.

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, the Time Lords
don’t actually remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway. So
they would think there were only three.

> Same goes for The Five Doctors. 

True.

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

>> Same goes for 
>> the Doctor's memories in The Family of Blood. 

True.

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

And Aggie missed out the Next Doctor.

>> Same goes for The Eleventh 
>> Hour. 

True.

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

>> Same goes for Listen. 

Listen only has a scene supposedly from the Doctor’s childhood. 

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway, and it’s possible
that regeneration started a a child.

Or that lots of Listen didn’t really happen.

>> Same goes for Twice Upon A Time.

True.

But all these recollections are pulled from the Doctor’s memories.

Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

>> 
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> Chibnall's revisions must be retconned!

As shown above, Chibnall’s Timeless Child narrative can be made to be
completely consistent with the entire history of the show. It was crafted
that way. 

It’s awfully convoluted and contrived, and completely unnecessary. But it
hasn’t harmed the show.

So be like Elsa, and let it go.

-- 
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor