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From: The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: From the Archives .....
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 02:23:53 +0100
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On 24/04/2024 00:44, The Last Doctor wrote:
> The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <v0881g$1ju4d$2@dont-email.me>,
>> The True Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> On 22/04/2024 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:
>>>> The True Doctor wrote on 21/4/24 10:45 am:
>>>>> On 21/04/2024 01:21, Blueshirt wrote:
>>>>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>> I go with 4 Doctors taking on Morbius!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can take from that scene whatever you like... it doesn't
>>>>>> change the way the scene was conceived. There is no Doctor Who
>>>>>> bible so whatever works for you and your enjoyment of the show
>>>>>> is fine. We are all free to make our own head-canon.
>>>>>
>>>>> What there is are established facts.
> 
> Implied beliefs, it turns out. Not facts.
> 

Established facts about the character and based on the principles of 
good writing and story telling.

> No regenerations existed before
>>>>> Hartnell as stated by Hartnell in The Tenth Planet and the 1st Doctor
>>>>> in The Five Doctors.
> 
> Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
> remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an 
totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know 
before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was 
trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John 
Peel, for far less.

> 
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Aggy, in "An Unearthly Child" or any of the other William Hartnell
>>>> Episodes, did DoctorBill state that he was the First Incarnation of The
>>>> Doctor or that he could, in fact, regenerate (pick a number, any number)
>>>> of times at all?? Did he mention that ability at any time during his
>>>> reign??
> 
> No.
> 
>>> It was implied from the very beginning that the character Hartnell
>>> played was like any other human, other than the fact that he was a
>>> fugitive from another world, as was his biological grand daughter Susan.
> 
> That’s true. Did Aggie stop watching when it was revealed that the Doctor
> was an alien with two hearts who could regenerate?
> 
> What a complete retcon and destruction of the character and the show!
> Doctor Who must have ended in 1966 when Hartnell regenerated!
> 

Revealing that a character always depicted as an alien has an alien 
biology doesn't change the character themselves.

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an 
totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know 
before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was 
trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John 
Peel, for far less.

>>>> Or was this "ability" ONLY mentioned AFTER Bill Hartnell had left??
>>>
>>> His possession of ability to perform bodily renewal is stated by
>>> Hartnell in at the end of The Tenth Planet, as is the fact that he did
>>> not know if it would work since he'd never had to perform it before,
>>> just before he is shown to rejuvenate himself. Troughton was intended to
>>> be a de-aged version of Hartnell.
> 
> That’s all a load of horsefeathers. Hartnell says nothing about his ability
> to perform a renewal or whether he’d ever done it before.
> 

It's stated in the Novelization.

> Here’s everything the Doctor says at the end of The Tenth Planet. He’s just
> been rescued from captivity in the Cyberman ship.
> 
> DOCTOR: What did you say, my boy? It's all over. It's all over. That's what
> you said. No, but it isn't all over. It's far from being all over.
> BEN: What are you taking about?
> DOCTOR: I must get back to the Tardis immediately!
> POLLY: All right, Doctor.
> DOCTOR: Yes, I must go now.
> BEN: Aren't we going to go back to say goodbye or anything?
> DOCTOR: No. No, I must go at once.
> BEN: Oh well, you better have this. We don't want you catching your death
> of cold.
> (Ben hands the Doctor his cloak.)
> DOCTOR: Ah, yes. Thank you. It's good. Keep warm.
> (The Doctor leaves.)
> 
> Near the start of the episode he says everything else that is said about
> his bodily condition:
> 
> POLLY: What's happened to you, Doctor?
> DOCTOR: Oh, I'm not sure, my dear. Comes from an outside influence. Unless
> this old body of mine is wearing a bit thin.
> POLLY: What do you mean, wearing a bit thin?
> DOCTOR: Oh, don't worry child, don't worry, don't worry.
> 
> No mention of renewal or how many times it’s happened. At all.
> 

It's in the Novelization of the story.

> And Pat Troughton was never intended to be a de-aged Hartnell. In The Power

Yes he was. He was almost exactly the same height and facial shape as 
Hartnell. The intention of the writers was to illustrate bodily renewal 
which was achieved biologically for the Doctor, in contrast to the 
bodily renewal practised by the Cybermen, which was electromechanical 
and took away their emotions. That was the entire basis of the story of 
The Tenth Planet.

> of the Doctor it’s made clear right away that he’s a completely different

You mean Power of the Daleks, not that degenerate Jodie Whittaker crap, 
right?

> personality and Ben has great difficulty believing he even is the Doctor.
> 

He's a younger man so wants to behave like a young man, without 
emotional inhibitors attached to him as those that were attached to the 
Cybermen which stopped them rejecting their unnatural implants and 
replacement parts.

>>> When Troughton is interrogated by the Time Lords at the end of The War
>>> Games no past forms of the Doctor are shown except those of Troughton
>>> and Hartnell.
> 
> As far as I can recall no past forms of the Doctor are shown at all.
> There’s discussion of his actions and the Doctor shows mental images of
> recent foes: starting feebly with Quarks and Yeti, moving on to Ice
> Warriors, Cybermen and Daleks.
> 
> Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
> remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an 
totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know 
before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was 
trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John 
Peel, for far less.

> 
>>> In The Three Doctors it is also demonstrated that there
>>> are were only ever 3 incarnations of the Doctor at this time, and
>>> Hartnell was the earliest.
> 
> That is correct.
> 
> Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, the Time Lords
> don’t actually remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway. So
> they would think there were only three.
> 

Do you seriously think that anyone in their right minds you believe an 
totally idiotic conspiracy theory that requires everything you know 
before about the character to be thrown out? War of the Daleks was 
trashed by virtually everyone posting in this group in 1997, except John 
Peel, for far less.

>> Same goes for The Five Doctors.
> 
> True.
> 
> Of course, if the Timeless Child narrative is accurate, he doesn’t actually
> remember anything from before his Hartnell years anyway.
> 

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