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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: The Design of Design Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2024 07:39:13 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 44 Message-ID: <v0fln1$3iapn$1@dont-email.me> References: <v03uh5$gbd5$1@dont-email.me> <v041el$1uba$1@gal.iecc.com> <v0cpfa$2r6o0$1@dont-email.me> <v0dv2p$338mv$1@dont-email.me> <v0ekid$1p5u$1@gal.iecc.com> Injection-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2024 09:39:13 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="045f1658419c64a36ac4504981d0eaf4"; logging-data="3746615"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+oOrUlDg2MBNSdR9TmFkayWdDJBBYH+dU=" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:1O2qgT4aV/Fg48M+/3Sj/0KZBTQ= Bytes: 3057 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> schrieb: > S/360 invented eight bit byte addressed memory with larger power of 2 > data sizes, which I think all by itself is enough to explain why it > survived. All the others, which were word or maybe decimal digit > addressed, died. Its addresses could handle 16MB which without too > many contortions was expanded to 2GB, a lot more than any other design > of the era. We all know that the thing that kills architectures is > running out of address space. Brooks wrote that the design was supposed to have been 32-bit clean from the start, but that the people who implemented the BALR instruction (which puts some bits of the PSW into the high-value byte) didn't follow that guideline. He blamed himself for not making that sufficiently clear to all the design team. He also commented on the carefully-designed gaps in the opcode space; extensibility was designed in from the beginning. @John S: Another important point about S/360 you might want to follow, as Mitch keeps telling you... > I thought the PDP-10 was swell, but even if DEC had been able to > design and ship the Jupiter follow-on to the KL-10, its expanded > addressing was a kludge. It only provided addressing 8M words or about > 32M bytes with no way to go past that. Reading http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp10/KC10_Jupiter/ExtendedAddressing_Jul83.pdf I concur that it was a kludge, but at least they seem to have allowed for further extension by reserving a 1-1- bit pattern, as an illegal indirect word. However, one questions. Designs like the PDP-10 or the UNIVAC (from what I read on Wikipedia) had "registers" at certain memory locations. On the PDP-10, it even appears to have been possible to run code in the first memory locations/registers. It seems that the /360 was the first machine which put many registers into a (conceptually) separate space, leaving them open to implementing them either in memory or as faster logic. Is that the case, or did anybody beat them to it?