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From: The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: From the Archives .....
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2024 22:58:09 +0100
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On 26/04/2024 14:12, The Last Doctor wrote:
> The Idiot Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <v0ehbd$37ds0$1@dont-email.me>,
>> The False Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>> On 25/04/2024 13:49, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>>> The Idiot Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> In article <v0akoq$28crk$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> The False Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>> On 24/04/2024 07:26, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>> The Idiot Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <v09lch$1ublm$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>> The False Doctor  <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 24/04/2024 00:10, The Last Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was fourteen and it was completely obvious on-screen and from
>>> the in-show
>>>>>>>>>> dialogue that the eleven faces shown going back in time were meant to be
>>>>>>>>>> earlier faces of the Doctor in order. And it still is when the scene is
>>>>>>>>>> rewatched.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No it isn't. Everything shown on screen is deliberately designed to
>>>>>>>>> indicate that the person who is winning the game is the one whose face
>>>>>>>>> is shown on screen and that is made to obvious even to a 6 year old.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Contradiction is not an argument.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes it is. It's used all the time in mathematical proofs.
>>>>
>>>> As Aggie knows full well, there is a significant difference between a
>>>> rigorous mathematical proof and a fool yelling “No it isn’t!”
>>> over and over
>>>> again.
>>>
>>> Squealer either doesn't know how proof by contradiction works or is
>>> pretending he doesn't in order to perpetuate his lies and false narratives.
> 
> Quite apart from the infantile name calling from one who would fit the role
> of “Squealer” in Animal Farm rather better than I would, it is Aggie who’s
> dissembling, as I quite clearly differentiated between a mathematical proof
> and the blind contradictions he offers up.
> 

I'm not the one who has been caught trying to change the rules/canon 
written on the side of the barn after being caught falling off his 
ladder covered in the contents of a tin of white paint. That's you 
Squealer, and lying that it was Snowball instead of you isn't going to 
believed by anyone. Snowball is dead. Doctor Who is also dead!

>>>> If someone says “2+2=4” and the response is “no it isn’t! I
>>> say 2+2=-7!”
>>>> there is no proof there, merely an asserted contradiction.
>>>
>>> That's not proof by contradiction.
> 
> No. But it’s the kind of contradiction Aggie was offering, which is a very
> different thing from the mathematical usage of the word “contradiction”.
> 

No it wasn't.

> Rather like the word “theory” means something very different in common
> usage than it does in science.
> 

Squealer is now trying to publish the 11th Edition of the Newspeak 
Dictionary ahead of schedule.


> But I will just note the point where Aggie outright lies. Anyone who cares
> to check - just review the eigthteenth minute of episode 4 of “The Brain of
> Morbius”.
> 

Where's Doctor Ruth among the faces of the Doctor? She's not there 
because there's no Doctor Ruth. The Doctor's regenerations begin at 
Hartnell. Where's Ruth's before his face? It's not there because all the 
faces after Hartnell are those of Morbius, and Hartnell is declared as 
the beginning of the Doctor, not Ruth.

> 
>>> The Doctor already went back to his beginning when we saw Hartnell's
>>> face. That's when Morbius tells him that.
> 
> That is simply a lie to support Aggie’s argument.
> 

That is not a lie. It is a concrete fact Squealer.

> As the faces roll back from Baker to Hartnell, Morbius cries out “How far
> back do you go?”

No further back than Hartnell, then Morbius starts winning the tug of 
war and his faces dominate the screen. There's no Doctor Ruth there at 
all. All the faces are white men.

> 
> Then, as the sequence of the Doctor’s earlier faces continues into unknown
> incarnations, Morbius crows about his power.

Morbius crows about his power because they are his faces Squealer. 
You're lies and dissembling are not fooling anyone. The white paint 
covering your head and body proves it, and there's not Snowball in sight.

> 
> And as the last few pre-Hartnell faces that we see roll along … THEN the
> “Back to your beginning” line occurs.

Those are the face's of Morbius which appear after he has sent the 
Doctor back to his beginning and it is clear that the Doctor can't 
summon up any other faces/previous minds to fight the tug of war any 
further.

> 
> The proof is right there on screen. Aggie is welcome to believe differently

Here is what actually happened on screen as described by the original 
writer in his own novelization.

It appears Terrance Dicks is claiming that the person losing is the face 
on the screen, but it makes no difference to what I said before, since 
the Doctor is actually described as winning the game in the end, 
therefore either interpretation demonstrates that the faces other than 
those of the Doctor from Tom Baker to William Hartnell are those of 
Morbius not those of the Doctor.

<<‘Now, now,’ said the Doctor reprovingly. ‘Mustn’t get the old brain 
overheated, must we? You want to take care—it’s not as strong as it was!’

‘My brain functions perfectly!’

‘I doubt it, Morbius. All that time in the tank, it’s bound to have gone 
a little soft. I say, would you care to put it to the test? How about a 
small game of mind-bending? We have all the apparatus here.’

At last Sarah saw the Doctor’s plan. ‘No, Doctor, you mustn’t,’ she 
called. The Doctor ignored her.

‘I challenge you, Morbius! Well, what do you say?’

The photo-electric cell that served Morbius for eyes surveyed the 
apparatus. ‘I am a Time Lord of the first rank, Doctor. What are you?’

‘Oh I’m nothing,’ said the Doctor hastily. ‘A mere nobody. But you see, 
Morbius, I don’t think you’re in the first rank any more.’

Morbius stepped forward and fixed the headset to his transparent 
brain-case. ‘Very well, Doctor if that is how you choose to die. I 
accept your challenge.’

‘Now there’s a sporting gentleman,’ said the Doctor cheerfully. But 
inside he was far from lighthearted. He knew he stood little chance of 
defeating Morbius. His only hope was that the tremendous stresses of the 
game would expose some of the hidden weaknesses left by Solon’s operation.

The Doctor put on his headset. ‘To the death, Morbius?’

‘To the death, Doctor. I, Morbius, do not play games.’

‘Nor I,’ said the Doctor grimly. ‘Are you ready? On guard!’

The Doctor and Morbius braced themselves, gripping the gleaming 
scaffolding. Sarah saw a swirl of images on the central screen. A 
familiar face appeared—the face they had seen depicted on Solon’s clay 
head. Morbius gave a cry of rage—clearly the appearance of ‘his’ face 
was a sign that he was losing.

Morbius rallied, and the face of the Doctor appeared on the screen.

Sarah saw that the real Doctor’s face was twisted with effort. Drops of 
perspiration covered his forehead. Another face appeared on the screen, 
the debonair white-haired features of the Doctor, as Sarah had first 
known him.

‘You are going, Doctor, going!’ roared Morbius triumphantly. ‘How far, 
Doctor? How long have you lived?’

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