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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Can there be a truth without a truthmaker? Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 12:37:23 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 71 Message-ID: <v0jd4l$g54u$1@dont-email.me> References: <uuhd1a$3amnv$1@dont-email.me> <uuld7u$f73d$1@dont-email.me> <uulf2n$ficn$1@dont-email.me> <uulf9o$fl5c$1@dont-email.me> <uulgkf$ftqj$1@dont-email.me> <uune3t$ugsb$6@dont-email.me> <uunepo$usff$1@dont-email.me> <uuq8cp$1n20j$1@dont-email.me> <uuqk07$1t1rv$1@dont-email.me> <VKudnYHVJuv_vY_7nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> <v0ic9r$89sc$4@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:37:25 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="94abfe76188a905a3abc96eb60b79e1c"; logging-data="529566"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18Npyp4tlUnilp5BJ+2sKTs" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:xtXrLly/Zf8IvB7BaK35zhHadAo= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v0ic9r$89sc$4@dont-email.me> Bytes: 4354 On 4/27/2024 3:16 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 21:26:16 -0700, Ross Finlayson wrote: > >> ... and the usual old idea that mathematics is analytic while experience >> is empirical ... > > What about that distinction itself, though: can it be characterized as > “analytic” (coming from mathematics) or “empirical” (coming from > experience)? I have worked very diligently on this for about two decades. It seems that I may have fixed the issues with the analytic/synthetic distinction such that my redefinition becomes unequivocal. My system is not at all about the nature of reality it is only about the nature of meaning expressed using language. Expressions that are {true on the basis of their meaning} are simply relations between finite strings of formalized semantic meaning. This does include Frege's Principle of compositionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_compositionality This is anchored in Proof theory rather than model theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_theory All of the general Facts of the world are assumed to be already encoded as relations between finite strings thus axioms of a formal system. Natural language expressions are formalized using https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/montague-semantics/ Many expressions that are {true on the basis of observation} have already been encoded as axioms that represent general Facts of the world. The details of current situations that are not general facts of the world can be formalized as a discourse context. This forms a mapping from {true on the basis of observation} to {true on the basis of meaning}. ∃L ∈ Formal_Systems, ∃x ∈ L (True(L, x) ≡ (L ⊢ x)) ∃L ∈ Formal_Systems, ∃x ∈ L (False(L, x) ≡ (L ⊢ ~x)) ∃L ∈ Formal_Systems, ∃x ∈ L (Truth_Bearer(L, x) ≡ (True(L, x) ∨ False(L, x))) The great thing about all of this is that any expression that lacks a truthmaker is simply construed as untrue. This eliminates the mathematical notions of undecidability and incompleteness. Such a system could screen out expressions like this: "This sentence is not true" and also apply two different order of logic thus conclude This sentence is not true: "This sentence is not true" is true because the inner sentence is not a truth bearer. People that truly understand the Tarski Undefinability theorem at its deepest philosophical levels as opposed to and contrast with people that only know as a sequence of mechanical steps might agree that my prior paragraph is a precisely accurate summation of the philosophical issues involved. We still have unknown truths that include but are not limited to requiring an infinite sequence of inference steps, events having no witnesses, or scientific knowledge that is not yet discovered. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer