Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 19:21:49 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <v0k4qt$laej$2@dont-email.me>
References: <uvq0sg$21m7a$1@dont-email.me> <v0doho$31mkn$2@dont-email.me>
 <v0forg$3j1dk$1@dont-email.me> <v0ghhm$3oudg$2@dont-email.me>
 <v0gk5q$2a19r$5@i2pn2.org> <v0gmrt$3qd6i$1@dont-email.me>
 <v0hfab$3vjo8$1@dont-email.me> <v0hgn3$2a19s$7@i2pn2.org>
 <v0hl90$4ehj$1@dont-email.me> <v0hna7$2a19s$8@i2pn2.org>
 <v0hpt4$59oq$1@dont-email.me> <v0hsd2$2a19s$9@i2pn2.org>
 <v0i2oh$6orp$2@dont-email.me> <v0iog7$2csj2$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v0j295$dmbi$1@dont-email.me> <v0jbgf$2djoe$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v0jdul$g54u$2@dont-email.me> <v0jf1q$2djof$2@i2pn2.org>
 <v0jffn$gimt$1@dont-email.me> <v0jgro$2djoe$4@i2pn2.org>
 <v0jhhl$h4i2$1@dont-email.me> <v0jihq$2djoe$5@i2pn2.org>
 <v0jkqe$hv4h$1@dont-email.me> <v0jqei$2djoe$6@i2pn2.org>
 <v0jr41$javt$1@dont-email.me> <v0jrm4$2djof$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v0jsm9$jn4r$1@dont-email.me> <v0jtkp$2djoe$7@i2pn2.org>
 <v0ju85$k214$1@dont-email.me> <v0jv6f$2djof$4@i2pn2.org>
 <v0jvqv$kb0i$1@dont-email.me> <v0k0j4$2djoe$8@i2pn2.org>
 <v0k1o6$ks20$1@dont-email.me> <v0k2k6$2djof$5@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2024 02:21:50 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5b5cf6fc6ad4bf43d1327b7299fd7236";
	logging-data="698835"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+lGA86c4nuZBvzMRW9rkFw"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:MEpZ9Zssdr+4C1s8prVvMS3ZF8M=
In-Reply-To: <v0k2k6$2djof$5@i2pn2.org>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 6396

On 4/27/2024 6:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 4/27/24 7:29 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/27/2024 6:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 4/27/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/27/2024 5:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 4/27/24 6:29 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/27/2024 5:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 4/27/24 6:02 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 4/27/2024 4:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/24 5:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/2024 4:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/27/24 3:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Simulating termination analyzer H determines whether or not
>>>>>>>>>>>> D(D) simulated by H can possibly reach its final state at its
>>>>>>>>>>>> own line 06 and halt whether or not H aborts its simulation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We can resolve exactly what I mean by this as an aspect of
>>>>>>>>>>>> staying on this one point. We cannot move on to the slightest
>>>>>>>>>>>> trace of any nuance of any other point until AFTER we have
>>>>>>>>>>>> 100% complete mutual agreement on this point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (a) It is a verified fact that D(D) simulated by H cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly reach past line 03 of D(D) simulated by H whether H
>>>>>>>>>>>> aborts its simulation or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When we have 100% perfect mutual agreement on that point
>>>>>>>>>>>> then we can move on to the next aspect of the point of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> paragraph.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is you don't seem to have a proper definition for 
>>>>>>>>>>> a "program", as the input seems to change behavior as you 
>>>>>>>>>>> analyize different options for what "different" H's might do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that neither your D or your H actual meet the normal 
>>>>>>>>>>> definition of what a "Program" is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I never even use the word "program"
>>>>>>>>>> *H and D are 100% completely specified right here*
>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, what is the defined "class" of the input to a Termination 
>>>>>>>>> Analyzer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am only talking about H and D. You always "read things in"
>>>>>>>> to what I say that I never said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, what are "H" and "D", are they "Programs" per the standard 
>>>>>>> definitions, or something else that you are stipulating?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are 100% completely defined in the complete source-code
>>>>>> that I just linked above.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if H is "defined" by its source code, then it can only do one 
>>>>> thing, and thus your criteria of talking about "whether it aborts 
>>>>> its simulation or not" is a MEANINGLESS Statement.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It <is> the mandatory prerequisite to proceeding to additional steps.
>>>> The end of these steps will show how it PRECISELY applies to the Linz
>>>> proof.
>>>>
>>>> You cannot truthfully say that I have not defined H and D sufficiently
>>>> when I provide the full source code to their fully operational system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since there is now no "problem" left for H to be tested to see if it 
>>> "solves" what can be agreed to?
>>>
>> 01 int D(ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to int function
>> 02 {
>> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>> 04   if (Halt_Status)
>> 05     HERE: goto HERE;
>> 06   return Halt_Status;
>> 07 }
>> 08
>> 09 void main()
>> 10 {
>> 11   H(D,D);
>> 12 }
>>
>> Simulating termination analyzer H determines whether or not
>> D(D) simulated by H can possibly reach its final state at its
>> own line 06 and halt whether or not H aborts its simulation.
>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
> 
> But, since you have stipulated that there only exist ONE H, the H 
> provided (since you won't define the class of object that H is) this 
> statement reduces to:
> 

I cut-and-pasted the exact verbatim word-for-word post that
C experts found very easy to answer.

If you don't give me a straight answer I will assume that you
are dodging because you want to hide the fact that you are mostly
clueless about C.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer