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From: Mark Isaak <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Making your mind up
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 16:30:47 -0700
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On 4/30/24 2:08 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 09:43:03 -0700, Mark Isaak
> <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> […]
> 
>> As it happens, I have been reading Yuval Noah Harari's _Homo Deus_ and
>> yesterday read his take on free will.  He considers it a modern myth
>> disproved by science. One example he gives is "robo-rats", rats in a
>> laboratory which have electrodes implanted in the pleasure centers of
>> their brain, which scientists can stimulate to make the rats do what the
>> scientists want them to do. The rats turn this way and that not of their
>> own choice, but according to the choices of the people pressing buttons.
>> Now, imagine you are one of those rats. You turn left. Why? Because you
>> *chose* to turn left. "What does it matter whether the neurons are
>> firing because they are stimulated by other neurons or by transplanted
>> electrodes connected to Professor Talwar's remote control? If you ask
>> the rat about it, she might well tell you, 'Sure I have free will! Look,
>> I want to turn left -- and I turn left. I want to climb a ladder -- and
>> I climb a ladder. Doesn't that prove I have free will?'" [pp. 333-334]
> 
> 
> Most brain research that I'm aware of - including the Lbet experiments
> - show a considerable difference in brain activity between trivial
> decisions and important decisions. I think it's safe to say that 'Turn
> left or tun right' is well into the trivial category.
> 
> You and he also seem to be making the assumption that the decision
> process in rats can be directly transposed into humans which isnot
> necessarily the case - there are distinct difference between rats and
> primates, including humans. See my response to Arkalen below.

I took the rat illustration as an illustration, not as proof of final 
concept. If a rat controlled by a human can be thinking, "I made that 
decision on my own", so can a human controlled by fate.

-- 
Mark Isaak
"Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between 'That
doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.'" - Mary Doria Russell