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From: Volney <volney@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: On Arindam Banerjee's recoil-less rail gun and Newton's 3rd Law
 violations in electrodynamics
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 19:55:40 -0400
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On 4/30/2024 7:26 PM, bertietaylor wrote:
> Aether Regained wrote:
> 
>> bertietaylor:
>>> Aether Regained wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aether Regained:
>>>>> @ArindamBanerjee
>>>>>
>>>>> I took a look at your video of your 'recoil-less' rail gun:
>>>>>
>>>>> My Movie8feb2022
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYtyOMbgiZ0
>>>>>
>>>>> My first impression was that, there is an obvious recoil of the 
>>>>> 'gun' or
>>>>> rails+supercapacitors section, but you claim in the description that:
>>>>>
>>>>> "... we are creating momentum from internal energy/force in this
>>>>> experiment. The heavy (3Kg) armature is accelerated by electromagnetic
>>>>> forces. There is a recoil, the rest of the apparatus weighs 4.3Kg - 
>>>>> BUT
>>>>> THAT IS DUE TO THE FRICTION FROM THE ROLLING ARMATURE. ...  As I have
>>>>> shown in my other videos, the force that accelerates the armature has
>>>>> very little recoil, and this new effect can be used to make 
>>>>> reactionless
>>>>> motors for the proper conquest of space."
>>>>>
>>>>> You have worked on this for a long time, but I think you are maybe
>>>>> overlooking that whatever electromagnetic forces act on the current
>>>>> flowing through the rolling bar/'armature', near [*] exactly opposite
>>>>> electromagnetic forces will act on the other end of the rails, 
>>>>> i.e., on
>>>>> the oppositely flowing current through the supercapacitors, and the
>>>>> center-of-mass of the whole system will remain near stationary.
>>>>>
>>>>> [*] It is well known that in electrodynamics, Newton's 3rd law is
>>>>> inexact, namely it will appear to be violated if the momentum in the
>>>>> aether or em field is not also considered. I urge you to carefully 
>>>>> read
>>>>> FLP-II:26-2, especially the last paragraph, and also FLP-II:27-6 on 
>>>>> the
>>>>> (Electromagnetic) Field Momentum.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_27.html#Ch27-S6
>>>>>
>>>>> "FLP-II:27-6: We pointed out in Section 26–2 the failure of the law of
>>>>> action and reaction when two charged particles were moving on 
>>>>> orthogonal
>>>>> trajectories. The forces on the two particles don’t balance out, so 
>>>>> the
>>>>> action and reaction are not equal; therefore the net momentum of the
>>>>> matter must be changing. It is not conserved. But the momentum in the
>>>>> field is also changing in such a situation. If you work out the amount
>>>>> of momentum given by the Poynting vector, it is not constant. HOWEVER,
>>>>> THE CHANGE OF THE PARTICLE MOMENTA IS JUST MADE UP BY THE FIELD
>>>>> MOMENTUM, SO THE TOTAL MOMENTUM OF PARTICLES PLUS FIELD IS CONSERVED."
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it is premature to believe that your inconclusive results 
>>>>> can be
>>>>> the basis of a space motor. For that purpose, you may want to take a
>>>>> look at PROJECT ORION:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)
>>>>>
>>>>> which is a design by the late Freeman Dyson, that works, and does not
>>>>> involve continuously ejecting mass.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Just a clarifying addendum to the OP:
>>>
>>>> In light of:
>>>
>>>> https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_27.html#Ch27-S6
>>>
>>> Irrelevant
>>>
>>>> "FLP-II:27-6: We pointed out in Section 26–2 the failure of the law of
>>>> action and reaction when two charged particles were moving on 
>>>> orthogonal
>>>> trajectories. The forces on the two particles don’t balance out, so the
>>>> action and reaction are not equal; therefore the net momentum of the
>>>> matter must be changing. It is not conserved. But the momentum in the
>>>> field is also changing in such a situation. If you work out the amount
>>>> of momentum given by the Poynting vector, it is not constant. HOWEVER,
>>>> THE CHANGE OF THE PARTICLE MOMENTA IS JUST MADE UP BY THE FIELD
>>>> MOMENTUM, SO THE TOTAL MOMENTUM OF PARTICLES PLUS FIELD IS CONSERVED."
>>>
>>> Feynman does not believe in fields. He believes in particles of energy
>>> following e=mcc=hv
>>> Anyway his opinions are worthless in this context which is based upon
>>> Maxwellian electrodynamics.
>>>
>>>> the correct momentum balance equation for Arindam's rail gun is:
>>>
>>>> (1) [rail gun momentum]_{backward} + [em field momentum]_{backward} =
>>>> [rolling bar momentum]_{forward} + [em field momentum]_{forward}
>>>
>>> Wrong. There is forward momentum found experimentally with my later 2023
>>> videos with their detailed analysis and graphs.
>>>
>>>> For a working space motor design, the following has to be satisfied:
>>>
>>>> (2) [rolling bar momentum]_{forward} >> [rail gun momentum]_{backward}
>>>
>>> Which is tge case from my 2023 videos, the latest ones.
>>> However as the bar rolls there is a significant backward monentum from
>>> the friction upon the rails.
>>> Sliding will lessen it.
>>>
>>>> or what amounts to the same thing:
>>>
>>>> (3) [em field momentum]_{backward} >> [em field momentum]_{forward}
>>>
>>>> I'm skeptical that for the given rail gun setup, (2) or (3) holds. 
>>>> Also,
>>>> it seems to me that, if all the energy in the supercapacitors were
>>>> expended in generating a laser pulse, it is more likely that (3) would
>>>> be achieved.
>>>
>>> Check out my latest videos and the graphs. You should be able to find
>>> them from my links in sci.physics. Or I will repost here.
>>>
>>> Arindam Banerjee, for Bertie and Tyler, my faithful ghostly cyberdogs.
> 
>> ElectroBOOM's take on the rail gun:
> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRDclzi5Vg
> 
>> On a more serious note, the laws of conservation of energy, linear
>> momentum and angular momentum are at the foundations of both classical
>> and modern physics.
> 
> Yes. So read my bew physics which upgrades Newtonian and Maxwelluan 
> physics. That us much of classical physics. And all of modern physics.
> 
>> If you make the EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM that these have
>> been falsified, EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE will be demanded -- a lot more
>> than crude experiments, made with half assed or hardly any 
>> instrumentation.
> 
> They were done with what was sufficient for the purpose. They can be 
> compared with the experiments of Archimedes and his SG experiments, 
> Torricelli and his water barometer, Galileo and his telescope, Curie 
> with their radioactivity, Galvani and his frogs, Faraday and his early 
> motors. Yes it is extraordinary that way. Just scales, and a multimeter. 
> But very latest equipment like supercapacitors were used and a video 
> camera with 30-40 ms resolution.
> 
> For such outstanding results from such simplicity, against all odds, 
> just homself with no or negative help, with only his savings to fund the 
> work... only Arindam, the greatest genius of all time could do it.
> 
No, Banjo, what he said is true. Extraordinary claims require 
extraordinary evidence. Low quality youtube videos without a proper 
writeup are worthless, and you will be ignored as you should be. Too 
bad, if in the unlikely event you were actually on to something, it will 
have to wait until the next person to come along and discover it (and 
write a proper scientific paper on his discovery).