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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Can D simulated by H terminate normally?
Date: Thu, 2 May 2024 13:35:19 -0500
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On 5/2/2024 4:39 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/30/2024 5:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 4/30/24 12:15 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/30/2024 10:44 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/30/2024 3:46 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 29.apr.2024 om 21:04 schreef olcott:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>>>> When we add the brand new idea of {simulating termination analyzer} to
>>>> the existing idea of TM's then we must be careful how we define halting
>>>> otherwise every infinite loop will be construed as halting.
> 
> 
>>> Why?
> 
>>> That doesn't mean the machine reached a final state.
> 
> 
>> Alan seems to believe that a final state is whatever state that an
>> aborted simulation ends up in.
> 
> Only through your twisted reasoning.  For your information, I hold to the
> standard definition of final state, i.e. one which has no state following
> it.  An aborted simulation is in some state, and that state is a final
> one, since there is none following it.
> 
>> On 4/30/2024 10:44 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> You are thus mistaken in believing "abnormal" termination
>>> isn't a final state.
> 
>>> Only if you try to define something that is NOT related to Halting, do
>>> you get into that issue.
> 
> 
>> "The all new ideas are wrong" assessment.
>> Simulating termination analyzers <are> related to halting.
> 
> Except you cannot define what such a thing is, and that relationship is
> anything but clear.
> 

When a simulating termination analyzer matches one of three
non-halting behavior patterns
(a) Simple Infinite loop
(b) Simple Infinite Recursion
(c) Simple Recursive Simulation

It aborts it simulation and reports that the input specifies
a non-halting sequence of configurations. Otherwise it continues
to simulate the input to completion. Non-terminating inputs that
have complex non-halting behaviors are outside of its domain.


>> The whole field of *termination analysis* is directly related
>> to halting.
> 
> Is there such a field of study?
> 

WST 2023: 19th International Workshop on Termination
https://easychair.org/cfp/WST2023

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termination_analysis

*AProVE: Non-Termination Witnesses for C Programs*
To prove (non-)termination of a C program, AProVE
uses the Clang compiler [7] to translate it to the
intermediate representation of the LLVM framework [15].
Then AProVE symbolically executes the LLVM program ...
https://verify.rwth-aachen.de/giesl/papers/TACAS22.pdf

> [ .... ]
> 
>> -- 
>> Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
>> hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
> 

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer