Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Can D simulated by H terminate normally?
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 12:23:23 +0300
Organization: -
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <v14uqb$14rq2$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v0k4jc$laej$1@dont-email.me> <v0lic7$2g492$3@i2pn2.org> <v0lkas$12q0o$3@dont-email.me> <v0loq2$2g493$1@i2pn2.org> <v0lq7d$14579$2@dont-email.me> <v0ls98$2g492$7@i2pn2.org> <v0m29q$166o1$1@dont-email.me> <v0m37e$2gl1e$1@i2pn2.org> <v0m3v5$16k3h$1@dont-email.me> <v0m55t$2gl1f$3@i2pn2.org> <v0m5sn$172p4$1@dont-email.me> <v0oban$1o3b$1@news.muc.de> <v0oce3$1q3aq$4@dont-email.me> <v0oe1b$1o3b$2@news.muc.de> <v0ofl3$1r1mf$1@dont-email.me> <v0oh7g$1o3b$3@news.muc.de> <v0olhv$1sgeo$1@dont-email.me> <v0oobd$1o3b$4@news.muc.de> <v0or07$1tmga$1@dont-email.me> <v0qb59$2bsfc$1@dont-email.me> <v0r242$2hb7o$1@dont-email.me> <v0r3kh$hka$1@news.muc.de> <v0r5f2$2hb7o$11@dont-email.me> <v0r78v$hka$3@news.muc.de> <v0rd16$2k1bi$1@dont-email.me> <v0t3uj$1iuj$2@news.muc.de> <v0tneg$37lgj$5@dont-email.me> <v0umsa$2qov3$3@i2pn2.org> <v0v0tm$3kdu6$5@dont-email.me> <v0vlmb$3ovek$1@dont-email.me> <v1098d$3tep8$2@dont-email.me> <v11fq3$2tlr1$5@i2pn2.org> <v12lp7$hk7o$6@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 04 May 2024 11:23:24 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5d1ad03f625c1be42bfcdb251a7e703b";
	logging-data="1208130"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/Hy097VSNvccBH0bDp1Xyz"
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:d9VI0bwCxXDbxWq0gPWlyhiyRW4=
Bytes: 4369

On 2024-05-03 12:36:55 +0000, olcott said:

> On 5/2/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/2/24 10:50 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/2/2024 4:16 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-02 03:22:29 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> 
>>>>> When I had to make changes to Bank's the VISA credit card system
>>>>> I had to re-read the VISA change document fifteen times before
>>>>> I was confident that I understood every relevant detail.
>>>> 
>>>> It's only because there was no detail that you could not accept.
>>>> Had there been one you could have stopped reading as soon you
>>>> found it, perhaps even before reading first time to the end.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> It was because 99% of the details did not apply to my system
>>> that I had to carefully study all of the details to see which
>>> ones applied.
>> 
>> Because your system doesn't meet the basic requirement of the problem.
>> 
>>> 
>>>> Likewise with your proofs: as soon as one error is found there
>>>> is no need to read further in order to determine that the proof
>>>> is erroneous.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> There is no error in this and it is a verified fact not requiring
>>> any subjective judgement call:
>>> 
>>> (a) It is a verified fact that D(D) simulated by H cannot
>>> possibly reach past line 03 of D(D) simulated by H whether H
>>> aborts its simulation or not.
>>> 
>> 
>> Proven wrong, and you have FAILED to even attempt to rebut that proof, 
>> thus you have accepted that your claim is baseless and are just being a 
>> pathological liar by repeating it.
>> 
> 
> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to int function
> 01 int D(ptr x)
> 02 {
> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
> 04   if (Halt_Status)
> 05     HERE: goto HERE;
> 06   return Halt_Status;
> 07 }
> 08
> 09 void main()
> 10 {
> 11   H(D,D);
> 12 }
> 
> Post the exact time date stamp and quote where you proved it wrong.
> 
> In one case it is ridiculous nonsense that you proved (a) is wrong.
> You must show a counter example where 1 to N steps of D(D) are
> simulated by H and the simulated D(D) reaches past its own line 03.
> 
> You are ahead of Mikko he has no idea what D(D) simulated by H means.

I certainly have, nore than you. One posiible interpretation is
'the direct execution of the same D as H was simulationg with the
same D as input' but there are other possibilities. But one can
also say that H may simulate any program with any input so "simulated
by H" can be anything.

-- 
Mikko