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From: RonO <rokimoto@cox.net>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Reason to Believe may no longer be IDiots.
Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 13:30:07 -0500
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https://reasons.org/

Reason to believe have been distancing themselves from the ID scam for 
years.  Before the Top Six were put out by the ID perps at the Discovery 
Institute, Reason to Believe still claimed to be IDiots, but they just 
claimed that they were not interested in teaching the junk, they were 
just using it to build their Biblical creation model.  Now there is 
nothing about intelligent design on their home page, and it has been 
completely expunged from their explanation of who they are and their 
history that they have up on their "ABOUT" pull down tab on their home page.

They have also dropped out their claims about working on their Biblical 
model.  The articles still exists, you just have to dig for them.  They 
no longer talk about them on their home page.

https://reasons.org/single/creation-model-approach

Their model was never really consistent with the science and they had to 
fudge about when the earth and moon were created because it definitely 
wasn't on any 4th day or age of an old earth.  They still claim that 
land plants were created before sea creatures even though you can find 
them using the Cambrian explosion IDiotic gap denial argument, and the 
same claim that Meyer's has been hawking for decades, that there isn't 
enough time for all the evolution to have occurred during a 25 million 
year period over half a billion years ago.  Angiosperm crop plants 
described in the Bible don't show up on earth until after Dinos had 
evolved within the last 200 million years.

They did update a summary of their model in 2022, but for some reason 
they have deleted all references to it from their home page and what 
they are about.

https://reasons.org/explore/publications/articles/summary-of-reasons-to-believes-testable-creation-model-1

The Top Six are inconsistent with this model in terms of the order in 
which the ID perps claim they must have occurred in this universe.

Reason to Believe may have dropped IDiocy for the same reason that most 
if the IDiots on TO stopped being IDiots.  There isn't any ID science 
that most creationists ever wanted the ID perps to accomplish.  It would 
have just been more science to deny.  Science is just the study of 
nature and nature doesn't seem to be the creation described in the Bible.

None of the IDiots left posting to TO could deal with the Top Six best 
god of the gaps denial that the ID perps claimed to have.  Even Nyikos 
destroyed his space alien IDiotic claims once he had to deal with them 
as the ID perps had presented them.  It turned out that ID was just the 
same excuse for Nyikos as it was for all the other IDiotic Biblical 
creationists posting to TO. ID was just a lame and dishonest means to 
support their religious beliefs.

It looks like the Reason to Believe IDiots have come to the same 
conclusion as the TO IDiots.  Pretending that creation science can be a 
means of supporting their religious beliefs isn't anything worth doing 
when nature doesn't support Biblical creationism.  To deal honestly with 
the science you have to give up on the Biblical creation model.

The Israelites adopted a cosmology that was circulating among their 
neighbors who had been civilized for a longer period of time.  It is a 
flat earth geocentric view, and there is supposed to be a firmament, 
dome like structure, over the earth that the gods can open up and let 
the rain fall through.  They had their young earth chronology so that 
their ancestors could be the first humans.  This view has been known to 
be wrong since before Christ was born.  The Greeks were already 
calculating the circumference of the earth before 200 BC.  Reality has 
just gotten worse for the Biblical cosmology.  The last vestiges of the 
firmament died with Kepler's crystal spheres, and geocentrism was pretty 
much dead after Newton and he was born the year Galileo died under house 
arrest.  It turns out that the Biblical order of creation in Genesis is 
just wrong.  The Reason to believe IDiots have been trying to pretend 
otherwise for decades.  Once they admitted that the sun and moon existed 
before plants were created it should have been game over for using 
science to support Biblical creationism, but they just made up a stupid 
story and forged ahead.

Now their model isn't that important anymore, nor is their claims to use 
intelligent design science to support the Bible.  Denial seems to be all 
they have left, and it was all they ever got out of IDiocy.

Ron Okimoto