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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Can D simulated by H terminate normally?
Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 11:01:06 +0300
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On 2024-05-04 13:49:24 +0000, olcott said:

> On 5/4/2024 4:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-05-03 12:36:55 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 5/2/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 5/2/24 10:50 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/2/2024 4:16 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-02 03:22:29 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When I had to make changes to Bank's the VISA credit card system
>>>>>>> I had to re-read the VISA change document fifteen times before
>>>>>>> I was confident that I understood every relevant detail.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's only because there was no detail that you could not accept.
>>>>>> Had there been one you could have stopped reading as soon you
>>>>>> found it, perhaps even before reading first time to the end.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was because 99% of the details did not apply to my system
>>>>> that I had to carefully study all of the details to see which
>>>>> ones applied.
>>>> 
>>>> Because your system doesn't meet the basic requirement of the problem.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Likewise with your proofs: as soon as one error is found there
>>>>>> is no need to read further in order to determine that the proof
>>>>>> is erroneous.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no error in this and it is a verified fact not requiring
>>>>> any subjective judgement call:
>>>>> 
>>>>> (a) It is a verified fact that D(D) simulated by H cannot
>>>>> possibly reach past line 03 of D(D) simulated by H whether H
>>>>> aborts its simulation or not.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Proven wrong, and you have FAILED to even attempt to rebut that proof, 
>>>> thus you have accepted that your claim is baseless and are just being a 
>>>> pathological liar by repeating it.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to int function
>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>> 02 {
>>> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>> 04   if (Halt_Status)
>>> 05     HERE: goto HERE;
>>> 06   return Halt_Status;
>>> 07 }
>>> 08
>>> 09 void main()
>>> 10 {
>>> 11   H(D,D);
>>> 12 }
>>> 
>>> Post the exact time date stamp and quote where you proved it wrong.
>>> 
>>> In one case it is ridiculous nonsense that you proved (a) is wrong.
>>> You must show a counter example where 1 to N steps of D(D) are
>>> simulated by H and the simulated D(D) reaches past its own line 03.
>>> 
>>> You are ahead of Mikko he has no idea what D(D) simulated by H means.
>> 
>> I certainly have, nore than you. One posiible interpretation is
>> 'the direct execution of the same D as H was simulationg with the
>> same D as input' but there are other possibilities. But one can
>> also say that H may simulate any program with any input so "simulated
>> by H" can be anything.
> 
> <sarcasm>
> Sure D simulated by H might mean play a game of tic-tac-toe
> and then get into an infinite loop
> </sarcasm>

No, you have restricted D to mean constructed with the pattern above.
There is no place for a game of tic-tac-toe unless H plays it. The
infinite loop is there, so going there is no problem.

> Richard "interpreted"
> *D simulated by H* to mean
> *D NEVER simulated by H*

No, he interpreted it to mean 'simulation some finite number of steps
(possibly zero) by H of the execution of D'. That is not his usual
interpretation.

-- 
Mikko