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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Can D simulated by H terminate normally?
Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 09:28:42 -0500
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On 5/5/2024 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-05-04 13:49:24 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 5/4/2024 4:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-03 12:36:55 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 5/2/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 5/2/24 10:50 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/2/2024 4:16 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-05-02 03:22:29 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I had to make changes to Bank's the VISA credit card system
>>>>>>>> I had to re-read the VISA change document fifteen times before
>>>>>>>> I was confident that I understood every relevant detail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's only because there was no detail that you could not accept.
>>>>>>> Had there been one you could have stopped reading as soon you
>>>>>>> found it, perhaps even before reading first time to the end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was because 99% of the details did not apply to my system
>>>>>> that I had to carefully study all of the details to see which
>>>>>> ones applied.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because your system doesn't meet the basic requirement of the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Likewise with your proofs: as soon as one error is found there
>>>>>>> is no need to read further in order to determine that the proof
>>>>>>> is erroneous.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no error in this and it is a verified fact not requiring
>>>>>> any subjective judgement call:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (a) It is a verified fact that D(D) simulated by H cannot
>>>>>> possibly reach past line 03 of D(D) simulated by H whether H
>>>>>> aborts its simulation or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Proven wrong, and you have FAILED to even attempt to rebut that 
>>>>> proof, thus you have accepted that your claim is baseless and are 
>>>>> just being a pathological liar by repeating it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to int function
>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>>> 02 {
>>>> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>> 04   if (Halt_Status)
>>>> 05     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>> 06   return Halt_Status;
>>>> 07 }
>>>> 08
>>>> 09 void main()
>>>> 10 {
>>>> 11   H(D,D);
>>>> 12 }
>>>>
>>>> Post the exact time date stamp and quote where you proved it wrong.
>>>>
>>>> In one case it is ridiculous nonsense that you proved (a) is wrong.
>>>> You must show a counter example where 1 to N steps of D(D) are
>>>> simulated by H and the simulated D(D) reaches past its own line 03.
>>>>
>>>> You are ahead of Mikko he has no idea what D(D) simulated by H means.
>>>
>>> I certainly have, nore than you. One posiible interpretation is
>>> 'the direct execution of the same D as H was simulationg with the
>>> same D as input' but there are other possibilities. But one can
>>> also say that H may simulate any program with any input so "simulated
>>> by H" can be anything.
>>
>> <sarcasm>
>> Sure D simulated by H might mean play a game of tic-tac-toe
>> and then get into an infinite loop
>> </sarcasm>
> 
> No, you have restricted D to mean constructed with the pattern above.
> There is no place for a game of tic-tac-toe unless H plays it. The
> infinite loop is there, so going there is no problem.
> 
>> Richard "interpreted"
>> *D simulated by H* to mean
>> *D NEVER simulated by H*
> 
> No, he interpreted it to mean 'simulation some finite number of steps
> (possibly zero) by H of the execution of D'. That is not his usual
> interpretation.
> 

The spec did not allow for zero steps.

On 5/1/2024 7:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 5/1/24 11:51 AM, olcott wrote:
 >> *I HAVE SAID THIS AT LEAST 10,000 TIMES NOW*
 >> *Every D simulated by H that cannot possibly stop running unless*
 >> *aborted by H* does specify non-terminating behavior to H. When
 >> H aborts this simulation that does not count as D halting.
 >
 > Which is just meaningless gobbledygook by your definitions.
 >
 > It means that
 >
 > int H(ptr m, ptr d) {
 > return 0;
 > }
 >
 > is always correct, because THAT H can not possible simulate
 > the input to the end before it aborts it, and that H is all
 > that that H can be, or it isn't THAT H.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer