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From: Arkalen <arkalen@proton.me>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Paging Ron Dean: video on the origin of the genetic code
Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 17:14:23 +0200
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I had a short exchange with Ron Dean awhile ago in the "West Virginia 
Creationistm" thread (IIRC) where I gave my own understanding of what 
information is; @RonDean you said you basically agreed with it and the 
conversation didn't go further than that, although I'm curious what 
aspects of it you did agree with given I think we disagree on the 
implications in terms of the ability of information to arise without minds.


Anyway this is a video I thought you or others might find interesting in 
this context, if long videos are something you watch/listen to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T3bN2k28_E

It's a 2-hour-long conversation between Jon Perry & Stephen Woodford on 
the "Jon Perry - Genetics & Evolution Stated Casually" channel entitled 
"Origin of the Genetic Code: What we do and do not know".

If 2 hours is too long there is a section in the middle called "Overview 
of Signalling in Biology" which goes over basically what my post said:

https://youtu.be/8T3bN2k28_E?feature=shared&t=2291

And the description of how the genetic code works & how it could in 
principle have developed via mindless processes starts here:

https://youtu.be/8T3bN2k28_E?feature=shared&t=6086


Basically it seems Stephen Woodford is an atheist Youtube who'd made a 
video arguing that DNA wasn't a language to argue against the idea that 
DNA was proof of God, and Jon Perry contacted him arguing that DNA 
*could* be understood as a language and the reason it wasn't proof of 
God wasn't that it wasn't a language but that languages don't require 
minds to arise. This video is the conversation between them going over 
that & Jon Perry explaining the evolution of signalling systems in 
biology and how it applies to DNA and the genetic code.


They go over the different kinds of signalling that occur in biology in 
all kinds of different situations, how cues can develop into signals, 
how this can happen with thinking minds but doesn't require them and can 
occur via biological evolution, the sense in which the genetic code 
constitutes such a signalling systems, etc.


(Main quibble I'd have with the video is that Jon Perry frames the 
genetic code as something that's interpreted by the ribosome, treating 
the ribosome as a black box but I'd have thought it was worth mentioning 
how the "code" is instantiated physically in the transfer RNAs)

(Also he discusses possible scenarios for the development of the genetic 
code based on RNA-World scenarios and having gotten into the alkaline 
hydrothermal vent hypothesis I can't unsee the flaws of those kinds of 
scenarios. The RNA-peptide globs would be better at "surviving", what 
kind of "survival" even matters in a pre-life scenario? Shouldn't they 
be better at "replicating" and are you sure the two interact how your 
argument needs? Replace "surviving" with "promoting CO2 fixation in the 
protocell" and NOW you have a process that will actually lead to more of 
those being around).