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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Richard KEEPS TRYING to get away with falsehood
Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 17:28:00 -0500
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On 5/10/2024 4:59 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/10/24 5:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/10/2024 4:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 5/10/24 5:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/10/2024 3:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 5/10/24 4:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/10/2024 3:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/10/24 1:49 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2024 11:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/24 11:50 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2024 9:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/9/24 11:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/9/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/9/24 11:38 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/8/2024 8:38 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/05/24 21:05, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/8/2024 10:13 AM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/05/2024 14:01, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/8/2024 3:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-07 19:05:54 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2024 1:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 07.mei.2024 om 17:40 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2024 6:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/24 3:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-06 18:28:37 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2024 11:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-05 17:02:25 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The x86utm operating system: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm enables
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one C function to execute another C function 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in debug step mode.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simulating Termination analyzer H simulates 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the x86 machine code of its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input (using libx86emu) in debug step mode 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> until it correctly matches a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct non-halting behavior pattern proving 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that its input will never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stop running unless aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can D correctly simulated by H terminate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normally?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int function
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 04   if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 06   return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 09 int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11   H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Execution Trace*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *keeps repeating* (unless aborted)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Line 03: simulated D(D) invokes simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) that simulates D(D)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Simulation invariant*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach past its own line 03.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above execution trace proves that (for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every H/D pair of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infinite set of H/D pairs) each D(D) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by the H that this D(D)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls cannot possibly reach past its own line 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 03.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say "every H/D pair" you should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify which set of pairs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are talking about. As you don't, your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words don't mean anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every H/D pair in the universe where D(D) is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same H(D,D) that D(D) calls. This involves 1 to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ∞ steps of D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and also includes zero to ∞ recursive 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulations where H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H simulates itself simulating D(D).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "In the universe" is not a set. In typical set 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theories like ZFC there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no universal set.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This template defines an infinite set of finite 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> string H/D pairs where each D(D) that is simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by H(D,D) also calls this same H(D,D).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These H/D pairs can be enumerated by the one to ∞ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated steps of D and involve zero to ∞ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recursive simulations of H simulating itself 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulating D(D). Every time Lines 1,2,3 are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated again defines
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one more level of recursive simulation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st element of H/D pairs 1 step  of D  is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd element of H/D pairs 2 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd element of H/D pairs 3 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4th element of H/D pairs 4 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this begins the first recursive simulation at line 01
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5th element of H/D pairs 5 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next step of the first recursive simulation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 02
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6th element of H/D pairs 6 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last step of the first recursive simulation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 03
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7th element of H/D pairs 7 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this begins the second recursive simulation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 01
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this the definition of the infinite set of H? We 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can think of many more simulations that only these.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This template defines an infinite set of finite 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> string H/D pairs where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each D(D) that is simulated by H(D,D) also calls 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this same H(D,D).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No-one can possibly show one element of this set 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where D(D) reaches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past its own line 03.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If H is a decider of any kind then the D build from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it reaches its line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 as numberd above. Whether the simulation of D by H 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaches that line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is another question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *My fully operational code proves otherwise*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I seems like you guys don't have a clue about how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infinite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recursion works. You can run the code and see that I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one concrete instance as fully operational code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 555 u32 HH(ptr P, ptr I) its input in on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 932 int DD(int (*x)())
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HH is completely broken - it uses a global variable 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is allows HH to detect whether it is the outer HH 
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