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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Richard seems to be a liar.
Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 18:39:59 -0500
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On 5/10/2024 5:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/10/24 6:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/10/2024 4:59 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 5/10/24 5:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/10/2024 4:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 5/10/24 5:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/10/2024 3:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/10/24 4:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2024 3:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/24 1:49 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2024 11:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/24 11:50 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2024 9:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/9/24 11:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/9/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/9/24 11:38 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/8/2024 8:38 PM, immibis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/05/24 21:05, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/8/2024 10:13 AM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/05/2024 14:01, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/8/2024 3:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-07 19:05:54 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2024 1:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 07.mei.2024 om 17:40 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2024 6:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/24 3:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-06 18:28:37 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2024 11:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-05 17:02:25 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The x86utm operating system: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm enables
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one C function to execute another C 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> function in debug step mode.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Simulating Termination analyzer H simulates 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the x86 machine code of its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input (using libx86emu) in debug step mode 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> until it correctly matches a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct non-halting behavior pattern 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proving that its input will never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stop running unless aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can D correctly simulated by H terminate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normally?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00 int H(ptr x, ptr x)  // ptr is pointer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to int function
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 01 int D(ptr x)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 02 {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 04   if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05     HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 06   return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 09 int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11   H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Execution Trace*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *keeps repeating* (unless aborted)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Line 03: simulated D(D) invokes simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) that simulates D(D)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Simulation invariant*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach past its own line 03.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above execution trace proves that (for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every H/D pair of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infinite set of H/D pairs) each D(D) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by the H that this D(D)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls cannot possibly reach past its own 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 03.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you say "every H/D pair" you should 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify which set of pairs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are talking about. As you don't, your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words don't mean anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every H/D pair in the universe where D(D) is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same H(D,D) that D(D) calls. This involves 1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to ∞ steps of D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and also includes zero to ∞ recursive 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulations where H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H simulates itself simulating D(D).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "In the universe" is not a set. In typical set 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theories like ZFC there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no universal set.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This template defines an infinite set of finite 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> string H/D pairs where each D(D) that is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H(D,D) also calls this same H(D,D).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These H/D pairs can be enumerated by the one to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ∞ simulated steps of D and involve zero to ∞ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recursive simulations of H simulating itself 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulating D(D). Every time Lines 1,2,3 are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated again defines
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one more level of recursive simulation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1st element of H/D pairs 1 step  of D  is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd element of H/D pairs 2 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd element of H/D pairs 3 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4th element of H/D pairs 4 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this begins the first recursive simulation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 01
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5th element of H/D pairs 5 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next step of the first recursive simulation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 02
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6th element of H/D pairs 6 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last step of the first recursive simulation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 03
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7th element of H/D pairs 7 steps of D are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this begins the second recursive simulation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 01
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this the definition of the infinite set of H? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can think of many more simulations that only 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This template defines an infinite set of finite 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> string H/D pairs where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each D(D) that is simulated by H(D,D) also calls 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this same H(D,D).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No-one can possibly show one element of this set 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where D(D) reaches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past its own line 03.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If H is a decider of any kind then the D build from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it reaches its line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 as numberd above. Whether the simulation of D by 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H reaches that line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is another question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *My fully operational code proves otherwise*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I seems like you guys don't have a clue about how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infinite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recursion works. You can run the code and see that I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one concrete instance as fully operational code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
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