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From: Alastair Hogge <agh@riseup.net>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Wayland Is Coming
Date: Sat, 11 May 2024 02:18:51 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Fri, 10 May 2024 11:11:54 -0500, Zach Metzinger wrote:

> On 5/7/24 23:55, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> So, X11 development has been moribund for years. All the major GUI
>> environments are adding Wayland support now.
>> 
>> X11 is full of legacy cruft, like that graphics API (at least the font
>> server API went away years ago).
> 
> .. but does it work "well enough"? Yes.
> 
> So many promises over the years of something better, but none have
> displaced X11.
> 
> Remember this one?
> 
> https://github.com/graydon/berlin

Oh. My. Gosh. I remember this, and have been looking for an archive for 
the last decade. Was unfortunate on the license choice tho. Ta very much 
for sharing.

I was more interested in another project that started as General Graphics 
Interface (GGI)[1], a project to correct video terminal (UI/UX) 
integration with Linux, later FreeBSD, and other platforms. Think of a 
limited gstreamer for display/rendering engines. It evolved into two 
separate projects, the next being Kernel Graphics Interface (KGI)[2]. KGI 
was truly an amazing engineering feat like Fresco, both examples of 
engineering, and technical advancements not able to destabilise the 
clapped out bandwagons at the time.

KGI aimed to finally fix the video terminal integration with kernel mode 
setting, and a portable modular driver framework (KGIM) for writing 
drivers, similar to the Uniform Driver Interface (UDI)[3], it was 
engineered for monolithic or microkernel systems. No more problems 
switching between X, or a vty. There was a X server XGGI that used this 
system. It was light years ahead of it's time, and today we are still far 
off reaching the aims of those projects, tho, it is obvious that 
portability, and diversity is not a goal anymore.

I would love to know why Wayland, or how it came to be, to push the 
complexity of compositing further out from the Display Server into the 
client, like the window manager. Why is the complexity moved up the 
software stack, instead of down, into the core. The clients of a software 
system should be simpler. Personally, I think the WM should be part of the 
Display Server, to facilitate tighter syncing with the scanout. But then 
you probably lose the diversity of window managers.

As was mentioned elsewhere, X should not be muxing the display hardware, 
the OS should be muxing display and events, X should be getting a generic 
framebuffer provided by the OS, for example by KGI.

On FreeBSD, none of my AMD, or Intel GPUs can handle switching to the vty 
from X, or even display suspension, the graphics become fucked, input 
still works, but who knows what chat or Usenet group I am posting my 
financial institutions login details to.

1: http://www.ibiblio.org/ggicore/index.html
2: http://kgi-project.org/
3: http://www.projectudi.org/

-- 
To health and anarchy