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From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: Dynamic DNA structures and the formation of memory
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 01:14:15 +1000
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On 13/05/2024 11:54 pm, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2024 18:30:32 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 12 May 2024 21:21:56 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
>> <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 05 May 2024 05:36:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dynamic DNA structures and the formation of memory
>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/05/240501125755.htm
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> An international collaborative research team has discovered that
>>>>> G-quadraplex DNA (G4-DNA) accumulates in neurons and dynamically
>>>>> controls the activation and repression of genes underlying long-term
>>>>> memory formation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have always though that memory could be stored as DNA sequenxes...
>>>>
>>>> More likely RNA or some other protein.
>>>>
>>>> The oft-mocked Lamarckian concept, of genetic learning (not just
>>>> natural selection) is probably real, and some reverse transcription
>>>> does happen, namely that DNA is edited within the life of one
>>>> organism. But remembering where you left your glasses is probably
>>>> handled at a lower level than editing your chromosones.
>>>
>>> But how can it be passed down as Lamarck thought, if the eggs in the
>>> ovaries are formed early? If genetic memory could be passed down it
>>> would be only from the father because sperm are formed recently. But the
>>> sperm spawn from local cells. If DNA is edited to store memory then
>>> would these changes be duplicated in all cells in all tissues? How else
>>> would the changes get into sperm cells? How could they get into eggs?
>>>
>>
>> If it is advantageous for a woman's life experiences to be passed onto
>> her children, nature will find a way.
> 
> Yes, but that is not the issue.  Lamark claimed that it could be done
> very quickly, in the lifetime of one woman, versus over generations
> (where DNA controls).  Actually, Lamark was focused on Wheat,
> specifically can one train wheat to grow in Siberia; this was very
> attractive to Stalin.  Turns out you cannot.
> 
> But there is a twist.  There was a study of the effect of mass
> starvation of the Swedish population which showed that one could
> detect the effect of starvation of grandfathers on their
> grandchildren.  It is thought that this is mediated by epigenetic
> information carried in methyl tags on the DNA, but I don't know if
> that was ever sorted out.  "Överkalix study":
> 
> .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96verkalix_study>

The one I know about was in the Dutch population - the children of women 
conceived during the "hunger winter" at the end of 1944 were smaller 
than usual.

The eggs that developed in the embryos growing during the "hunger 
winter" had the same epigenetic adaption to inadequate nutrition as all 
the other cells in those embryos, and developed into small babies when 
they  were fertilised twenty to forty years later.

https://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/142195/beyond-dna-epigenetics

It was a small part of the whole story.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney