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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###
Date: Sun, 19 May 2024 08:03:38 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 5/18/24 11:27 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/18/2024 9:58 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:
>> On 2024-05-17 18:24, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/17/2024 6:15 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-17 17:00, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/17/2024 3:02 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> That "program" doesn't compile.  It's ill-formed. 
>>>>>
>>>>> This does compile under C17 and C11
>>>>> with Microsoft Visual Studio 2022
>>>>  >
>>>>> *Maybe you forgot to take the line numbers out*
>>>>> *Maybe you forgot to take the line numbers out*
>>>>> *Maybe you forgot to take the line numbers out*
>>>>> *Maybe you forgot to take the line numbers out*
>>>>>
>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();
>>>>> int H(ptr P, ptr I);
>>>>
>>>> But that's not the code you provide in your numerous previous posts 
>>>> where you insist on
>>>>
>>>> int H(ptr x, ptr x);
>>>>
>>>> Maybe when people point out that there is an error you should 
>>>> actually proofread what you wrote.
>>>>
>>>> [remaining code deleted].
>>>>
>>>> André
>>>>
>>>
>>> *Whoops my mistake*
>>> *Whoops my mistake*
>>> *Whoops my mistake*
>>> *Whoops my mistake*
>>>
>>> Thanks for your review.
>>>
>>> I couldn't see my mistake when I tried to compile it
>>> so I used an old trick, refactor from working code.
>>> I still didn't see my mistake, yet got it to compile.
>>
>> You're missing the point. This error had been pointed out to you 
>> multiple times by multiple posters. Alan even pointed out the 
>> *specific* compiler errors which it generated under GCC. Yet you 
>> refused to correct it for weeks on end, insisting that everyone else 
>> was wrong.
>>
> 
> Yes and several people also continue to point out that D
> correctly simulated by H can reach its own line 06 and halt
> even when an execution trace of H simulating itself simulating
> D proves otherwise.

Nope, YOU don't look at the execution trace of the right H doing the 
simulation, in other words, you are fighting with Strawmen.

Your claim, that was disproven, was that NO H could do that, I have 
shown an H that does, thus you are wrong, even though you can show some 
H that don't.

This just proves that you don't understand the nature of Qualifiers, and 
have fallen into the trap of beliving a proof by example for a Universal 
Qualifier.


> 
>> A competent C programmer wouldn't have run into this issue since they 
>> would have declared the function as something like:
>>
>> int H(ptr programDescription, ptr programInput); // no silly x and y
>>
> 
> The actual names are P and I.
> Yes I agree that meaningful variable names are very important
> yet computer scientists don't do it that was when referring
> to the halting problem.

Since that is in the domain of MATHEMATICS, which likes to use short 
symbols, that is why it is done.

They DO tend to use names that have meaning, like M for the machine 
description and d for its data, and they also start with a listing of 
what each locally defined symbol means, and one symbol never changes 
meaning in the body of a proof.

So H is ALWAYS a SPECIFIC machine and not some infinite set. If the set 
was H, then the machine itself would be H[i] or the like,

> 
>> Yet you continue to question everyone else's 'C-credentials' when you 
>> are the one making very basic errors. That hardly inspires confidence 
>> in anything else you might say about C.
>>
>> André
>>
> 
> Several people continue to lie about the execution trace
> that is proven by H simulating itself simulating D.
> 

Nope, you lie because you don't use the right H

Remember, YOU defined H to be any arbitrary machine from the set wth few 
restrictions, you can't then ignore the machine given.