Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Oxford Music Professors: Sheet Music is White Supremacy
Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 19:29:43 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 213
Message-ID: <v2g8b6$5426$1@dont-email.me>
References: <9kednTImBeTyi977nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <PL2dnWOi7pc0Ftf7nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> <v2foco$1mk4$1@dont-email.me> <atropos-CBDB9B.11282220052024@news.giganews.com>
Injection-Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 21:29:43 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="0022c3f087a0c5e2fc4e2cd1936c05dc";
	logging-data="168006"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18dnyOfl74aoRgoqQsCrFn5UsiW3DwNp90="
Cancel-Lock: sha1:h4YbBxsbgL6/XAABnMz6J1b5irc=
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Bytes: 11959

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>On 5/19/2024 7:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>On 5/19/2024 4:28 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:22:51 -0400 moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On 5/18/2024 8:08 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>>>On Sat, 18 May 2024 19:15:05 -0400 moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>On 5/18/2024 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>On 5/18/2024 1:48 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/18/2024 12:09 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>May 17, 2024 at 6:43:52 PM PDT, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fri, 17 May 2024 00:42:52 -0700 The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 16 May 2024 13:09:59 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, and because the current system isn't a dream for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sight-readers, that means it's a racist form of white
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>supremacy.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(Because only white people can sight read perfectly or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>something.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><rolls eyes>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm pretty sure there were and are a few black
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>musicians who have managed the feat and somehow a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the concert pianists these days
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>are of Asian origin...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wouldn't expect that to continue if I were you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As I understand it, Asian musicians expressed concerns that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>they weren't getting performance gigs as white musicians and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>attributed this to race. To address that, all or most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>auditions for orchestras started being done behind screens so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that the judges could only hear the performance but not see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the performer. But apparently Asians are now seen as white or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>white allies and a certain group of people who I'll call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>People of Darker Colour (PODC) are demanding that they simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>be given positions on orchestras without auditioning because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>they have been discriminated against in the past. I assume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>they're proposing some kind of quota system but I'm not sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what percentage of the slots they're demanding.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, I don't know if this proposal is finding any support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>among the people who decide these things but, given the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>things are going in general, I would be surprised if this was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NOT done. Competence is going out of the window to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>replaced by hiring on the basis of skin colour.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm sure the usual suspects will be along momentarily to deny
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all of this and/or defend it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, during the height of the Saint Floyd of Fentanyl riots,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>where literally everything in America was discovered to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>racist, there was an article in the New York Times that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>asserted that the blind audition system used by most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>professional orchestras and ensembles was racist because it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>*prevents* racial bias in the hiring process.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>The 'problem' is that when musicians play behind a screen and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the judges have no idea who the person is, what race they are,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>what gender they are, etc., it takes away the judge's ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to racially discriminate. This used to be considered a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>thing, but in today's woke world, the inability to racially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>discriminate (i.e., give preference to blacks over whites) is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>a major problem that needs fixing. Blind auditions tend to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>result in orchestras being problematically white and Asian.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>When pure talent and ability are the only factors available
>>>>>>>>>>>>>upon which to base a decision, the resulting orchestras
>>>>>>>>>>>>>aren't 'diverse' enough for the intelligentsia.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>So now, rather than blind auditions, the wokesters want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>remove that screen so the judges see the players, can actively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>discriminate against whites and Asians, and make hiring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>decisions based on race and gender, rather than ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>play the music.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyone who thinks a level playing field and the elimination of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>racial discrimination is the goal of the modern
>>>>>>>>>>>>>'progressive'... well, I have a few bridges to sell them.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>And with all the hand-wringing over how they needed to get rid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>of blind auditions so that they can 'fix' the problem of too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>many white classical musicians, there strangely was no plan to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>'fix' the problem of too many black basketball players (or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>recognition that it even is a problem in the first place).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wonder why that is?

>>>>>>>>>>>>In so many words, you're complaining about 'affirmative action'
>>>>>>>>>>>>as though it were a moral absurdity. Does that sum up your
>>>>>>>>>>>>view?

>>>>>>>>>>>I'm complaining about making an orchestra less than world class
>>>>>>>>>>>so that you can pat yourself on the back for sticking it to
>>>>>>>>>>>whitey.

>>>>>>>>>>>Yes. Giving someone a seat on stage for any other reason than
>>>>>>>>>>>that they can do the job is morally abhorrent. I'm not surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>you cheerlead for it.

>>>>>>>>>>>Of course Asians are historically oppressed minorities, too, and
>>>>>>>>>>>they somehow manage to not only make it into these ensembles on
>>>>>>>>>>>sheer talent and merit alone, but dominate them. Weird how
>>>>>>>>>>>that's not seen as a 'diversity' success but a problem that
>>>>>>>>>>>needs 'fixing'.

>>>>>>>>>>But the issue in question is 'affirmative action', i.e.:
>>>>>>>>>>procedural bias meant to hasten the homogenization of an
>>>>>>>>>>artificially bifurcate society.

>>>>>>>>>But in the case of these orchestras, there's nothing artificial
>>>>>>>>>about it. The auditions are blind and the chips fall where they
>>>>>>>>>may with regard to race, gender, and all the other grievance
>>>>>>>>>groups.

>>>>>>>>>A mostly white or Asian orchestra is no more of an artificial
>>>>>>>>>occurrence than is a mostly black basketball team. In both cases,
>>>>>>>>>the best people for the job are the ones who are hired.

>>>>>>>>>Again, why is a mostly black basketball team perfectly fine, but a
>>>>>>>>>mostly Asian orchestra 'problematic'?

>>>>>>>>>Both are historically oppressed minorities and both organizations
>>>>>>>>>are what they are because they hired the best people for the job.
>>>>>>>>>Why is one a 'diversity success' and the other a problem that
>>>>>>>>>needs to be fixed?

>>>>>>>>Any general policy is subject to second-guessing in any given
>>>>>>>>instance.

>>>>>>>Which says absolutely nothing as is typical for you when you fail to
>>>>>>>defend the indefensible.

>>>>>>Let me help you out:  The 'general policy' is to promote blacks,
>>>>>>disproportionately if necessary, into visible prominence in order to
>>>>>>change societal biases ...and even though every disproportionate such
>>>>>>instance will, taken in isolation, feel "unjust".

>>>>>And when will there be enough black musicians in orchestras?

>>>>>>>>Meanwhile, a pro basketball team is governed by money, not ideals.

>>>>>>>Don't you think a pro basketball team would make MORE money if it
>>>>>>>had more white players? A considerable portion of their fans and
>>>>>>>viewers must be white and I would imagine more white players would
>>>>>>>be appreciated by white fans and viewers who would like to see
>>>>>>>themselves represented. If my reasoning is correct, the team owners
>>>>>>>are walking away from extra income by not having more white players
>>>>>>>- and more Asians as well, who might also be basketball fans.

>>>>>>Uh, no, not since Jackie Robinson.  Today, teams make money by
>>>>>>winning.

>>>>>But orchestras must prioritize hiring on the basis of skin colour even
>>>>>if it reduces the quality of the orchestra and therefore hurts ticket
>>>>>sales, right?

>>>>Yes, competing priorities is a zero-sum game --  a mathematical fact.
>>>>And, anyone who sees no value to black faces in major orchestras won't
>>>>be pleased at that increased emphasis.

>>>But no need to put white faces on the basketball court, amirite?

>>Yes, exactly "rite". Whites aren't presumed too dumb for basketball.

>What the hell are you talking about? No one's presuming anyone dumb in 
>any of this.

Invariably, whenever moviePig postures profoundly in lieu of just
participating in friendly discussion, he reveals instead that he is
profoundly ignorant.

There are elite athletes who compete on the world stage for whom
performance is everything. They allow no distraction and are totally
dedicated. They don't have normal friendships and may not be able to
discuss all that much aside from their own sport. When they marry, it is
invariably to an elite athlete in the same sport of the opposite sex
because they don't get to know other people well enough to have a long
term relationship with.

If someone who has no idea of that level of dedication attempts to have
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========