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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation
 [good attempt]
Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 16:26:08 -0500
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On 5/22/2024 3:59 PM, wij wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 15:04 -0500, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/22/2024 11:11 AM, wij wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 10:44 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/22/2024 3:54 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> On 21/05/2024 23:56, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/21/2024 4:34 PM, bart wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/05/2024 19:48, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2024 1:39 PM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You're neither asking about a C- or C++ problem.
>>>>>>>>> So use a proper newsgroup.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no other group that knows enough about the semantics of the
>>>>>>>> C programming language and there is no other group still alive that
>>>>>>>> knows enough about the semantics of programming languages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then FFS take it to Reddit, where there are a myriad thriving forums,
>>>>>>> rather than a dying usenet group populated by a few aging regulars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have taken it to many different forums.
>>>>>> This is one of two forums where someone actually answered the question.
>>>>>> Two years ago someone answered the assembly language version of the
>>>>>> question. I think the Reddit banned me for even asking the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The /only/ reason you are not banned here is because unmoderated Usenet
>>>>> groups cannot ban people.
>>>>>
>>>>> You post obsessively in many places, and face nothing but rejection,
>>>>> ridicule, and banning.  Has it ever occurred to you to look for the
>>>>> common factor here?  It is /you/, and the posts you make.  If you truly
>>>>> want to make progress on your bizarre ideas, you are going to have to
>>>>> re-think your strategy - it is entirely obvious to everyone that you
>>>>> will not get the answers you are asking for here or anywhere else with
>>>>> your current posting style.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *On the other hand people could simply answer my question*
>>>> *I only repeat it until it is answered*
>>>>
>>>> For every H/D pair matching the following template where
>>>> H is a pure function:
>>>>
>>>> Does any D correctly simulated by H reach its own line 06 and
>>>> halt or does the fact that D remains stuck in recursive simulation
>>>> prevent that?
>>>>
>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>>> 00       int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>>>> 01       int D(ptr p)
>>>> 02       {
>>>> 03         int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>>>> 04         if (Halt_Status)
>>>> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
>>>> 06         return Halt_Status;
>>>> 07       }
>>>> 08
>>>> 09       int main()
>>>> 10       {
>>>> 11         H(D,D);
>>>> 12         return 0;
>>>> 13       }
>>>>
>>>> It is trivial to see that for every H/D pair of the infinite
>>>> set of H/D pairs that match the above template that
>>>>
>>>> D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own final
>>>> state at line 06 and halt because D correctly simulated by
>>>> H remains stuck in recursive simulation.
>>>>
>>>> This provides the basis for simulating termination analyzer H to
>>>> correctly determine that the halting problem's counter-example
>>>> input D cannot possibly halt.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If H is truly a simulator, its function is expected to be equivalent to:
>>>
>>> int H(ptr x, ptr y) {
>>>    x(y);
>>>    return __WHATEVER;
>>> }
>>>
>>> The H(D,D) can never halt.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Finally someone took 30 seconds to answer, thanks!
>> *The actual question was slightly different in a very crucial way*
>>
>> It is trivial to see that for every H/D pair of the infinite
>> set of H/D pairs that match the above template that
>>
>> D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own final
>> state at line 06 and halt because D correctly simulated by
>> H remains stuck in recursive simulation.
> 
> Correct. H will be stuck in the recursive simulations.
> 
>> *In other words even when H(D,D) terminates normally D*
>> *correctly simulated by H cannot possibly terminate normally*
> 
> Correct. Because D is programmed to behave the opposite of what the
> called H inside H reported.

No that is not true. D never gets to the point where it can possibly
do the opposite of whatever H reports.

*D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own line 03*
Thanks for your help.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer