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From: Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Lincoln's Letter to the Editor of the N,Y, Tribune
Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 14:11:10 -0400
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Ron Dean wrote:
> Chris Thompson wrote:
>> Ron Dean wrote:
>>> Chris Thompson wrote:
>>>> Ron Dean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not doubt that slavery was a cause of the US Civil War, but it 
>>>>> was President Lincoln's expressed primary objective as he wrote to 
>>>>> the editor of the New York Tribune was to Preserve the Union. It 
>>>>> was the South's fear that Lincoln would free the slaves, but it 
>>>>> appears, based on the letter he wrote  to the editor of the New 
>>>>> York newspaper, that this was a misjudgement by the South of 
>>>>> Lincoln and his objective.
>>>>>
>>>>> The institution had existed f0r over 2 centuries in the South, the 
>>>>> question is would there have
>>>>> been war had the South _n0t_ succeeded? The succession of Carolina 
>>>>> followed by the attack on Ft. Sumter started the Civil War.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had read, believed and defended the opinion that unfair tariffs 
>>>>> imposed on the South was the main cause of the war, but this was 
>>>>> proven wrong, in spite of the cites on the net advocating this fraud.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lincoln's Letter to the editor of the New York Newspaper was 
>>>>> written 1n August 22, 1862,  ab0ut a year and a half after the 
>>>>> start of the War between the States:
>>>>>
>>>>> Picture
>>>>> Mathew Brady Photographs of Civil War-Era Personalities and Scenes, 
>>>>> National Archives and Records Administration
>>>>> Hon. Horace Greely: Executive Mansion,
>>>>> Dear Sir Washington, August 22, 1862.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the 
>>>>> New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions 
>>>>> of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, 
>>>>> controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may 
>>>>> believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against 
>>>>> them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial 
>>>>> tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have 
>>>>> always supposed to be right.
>>>>> As to the policy I “seem to be pursuing” as you say, I have not 
>>>>> meant to leave any one in doubt.
>>>>> I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the 
>>>>> Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; 
>>>>> the nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be 
>>>>> those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same 
>>>>> time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who 
>>>>> would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy 
>>>>> slavery, I do not agree with them. 
>>>>> _My_paramount_object_in_this_struggle_is_to_ save_ the_ Union_, and 
>>>>> is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the 
>>>>> Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save 
>>>>> it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it 
>>>>> by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What 
>>>>> I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it 
>>>>> helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do 
>>>>> not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less 
>>>>> whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I 
>>>>> shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the 
>>>>> cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I 
>>>>> shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
>>>>> I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official 
>>>>> duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal 
>>>>> wish that all men every where could be free. Yours,
>>>>> A. LINCOLN
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lincolnandemancipation.weebly.com/letter-to-horace-greeley-1862.html 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This really isn't difficult. I fail to see how you have so many 
>>>> problems with it.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Lincoln's goal was to preserve the Union.
>>>> Why did the Union need preserving?
>>>> Because slave states seceded. (Not "succeeded".)
>>>> Why did those states secede?
>>>> Slavery.
>>>> Don't take my word for it.
>>>> Look up the Articles of Secession. Read the Cornerstone speech.
>>>> It's all written down.
>>>>
>>> You are right. This was the South's reason for the secession, but 
>>> secession was due to a misunderstanding of Lincoln's objective. This 
>>> based upon Lincoln's expressed words as to his objective in his 
>>> letter almost 2 years after the start of the war. But maybe this was 
>>> his immediate objective not his ultimate purpose. But would this not 
>>> be disingenuous?
>>>
>>> This is not to say that Lincoln approved slavery, he preferred 
>>> freedom for all people. Did you bother to read the Letter to to the 
>>> editor by Lincoln?
>>>
>>
>> You have been shown how much in error you are with all of these 
>> ridiculous assertions. You keep repeating Lost Cause revisionist lies. 
>> For someone who claims to "not have a dog in this fight" you're 
>> clinging desperately to any shred of Lost Cause garbage you can grasp. 
>> I don't think anyone who's read your posts believes you aren't 
>> invested somehow in whitewashing the south's actions.
>>
>> As to your most recent claim- that the south misunderstood Lincoln's 
>> objectives. Nonsense. Utter rubbish. There was never a 
>> misunderstanding about slavery. Read the discussions of slavery from 
>> the 1787 Constitutional Convention. A fair number of delegates wanted 
>> abolition immediately- most notably Benjamin Franklin and Alexander 
>> Hamilton. But the Constitution would never have been ratified if it 
>> ended slavery right then. The southern states had to be placated, but 
>> the northern states did win concessions- the end of the international 
>> slave trade in 1808 for instance. And even some slaveholding delegates 
>> realized that slavery had to be abolished eventually, and sooner 
>> better than later. George Mason was one of these.
>>
>> So there was never and misunderstanding on the south's part about 
>> slavery. The abolitionists had only grown more influential and 
>> numerous in the years since the convention. The south was terrified of 
>> slave uprisings- that's why they responded to John Brown's actions so 
>> viciously (and ever since have portrayed him as a lunatic, rather than 
>> a (mostly) righteous and dedicated man.
>>
>> So once again you are just wrong about this. But I'm pretty certain 
>> you will repeat Lost Cause junk some more, and maybe come up with some 
>> new garbage, because for some reason you're an apologist for slavers. 
>> That's pretty repugnant, you now.
>>
>> Chris
>>
> You've twisted what I wrote to mean something I did not - This is 
> dishonest You are corrupt!

I twisted nothing. I took what you wrote to its only logical conclusion. 
Your own words take you there.

> So, According to you, Lincoln was a liar!
> 

No, according to me, you are the liar.

> I'm done with this topic!
> 

You've made your case and proven yourself an apologist for slavers and 
rebels. I agree- there's nothing left for you to accomplish in this thread.

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