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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in
 recursive simulation?
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 07:18:09 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 5/23/24 11:59 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/23/2024 10:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/23/24 11:06 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/23/2024 9:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 5/23/24 10:22 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/23/2024 8:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/23/24 1:04 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>>>>>> 00       int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>>>>>>> 01       int D(ptr p)
>>>>>>> 02       {
>>>>>>> 03         int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>>>>>>> 04         if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>> 06         return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>> 07       }
>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>> 09       int main()
>>>>>>> 10       {
>>>>>>> 11         H(D,D);
>>>>>>> 12         return 0;
>>>>>>> 13       }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The above template refers to an infinite set of H/D pairs where D is
>>>>>>> correctly simulated by pure function H. This was done because many
>>>>>>> reviewers used the shell game ploy to endlessly switch which H/D 
>>>>>>> pair
>>>>>>> was being referred to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Correct Simulation Defined*
>>>>>>>     This is provided because every reviewer had a different 
>>>>>>> notion of
>>>>>>>     correct simulation that diverges from this notion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     A simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly emulates at 
>>>>>>> least one
>>>>>>>     of the x86 instructions of D in the order specified by the x86
>>>>>>>     instructions of D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of 
>>>>>>> H in
>>>>>>>     the order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus calling 
>>>>>>> H(D,D)
>>>>>>>     in recursive simulation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Execution Trace*
>>>>>>>     Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D); H(D,D) simulates lines 01, 
>>>>>>> 02, and 03
>>>>>>>     of D. This invokes H(D,D) again to repeat the process in endless
>>>>>>>     recursive simulation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By your definiton of "Correct Simulation", you do realize that you 
>>>>>> have broken connection between the simulaiton not completing and 
>>>>>> the program described by the input not halting?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words you are requiring that the x86 instructions of D
>>>>> (and possibly H) be simulated incorrectly and/or in the wrong order.
>>>>
>>>> No, they must be simulated COMPLETELY.
>>>>
>>>
>>> (a) *Clearly you are terrible at reading a spec*
>>> (b) *non terminating computations cannot be simulated completely*
>>
>> Not by your definition,
>>
>> D(D) proves you wrong, since it HALTS when run, it terminates.
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*

The FUNCTION D halts (if the H(D,D) returns 0) but the simulation by the 
H doesn'tr, because H gives up too soon.

WHO CARES about the simulation of D by H? Especially when your 
definition of "Correct Simulation" that H does has divorced itself from 
the question of the program halting. Unless my intent is to run programs 
under you emulation system, there behavior under it is irrelevant.

Note, I have yet to give you an answer to your question under your 
current "definitions" because they have deceptive implications.



> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
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> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
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> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
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> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
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> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
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> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
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> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
> *D correctly simulated by pure function H cannot possibly halt*
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