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From: -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Additions to the iOS/Android Features Document
Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 10:30:57 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 5/22/24 12:27 PM, Andrew wrote:
> -hh wrote on Wed, 22 May 2024 11:07:01 -0400 :
> 
>>> Which is irrelevant.
>>
>> Indeed.  All that saying that ~95% of Android products have moved along
>> to current design philosophies, while the last 5% haven't.
> 
> You missed the point of having choices that Apple never gives users
> (mainly because there are few companies as anti-consumer as Apple is).

Since the rest of the Industry (well, 95%) has adopted the same design 
choice, it really isn't as tyrannical of Apple as you're trying to make 
it out to be.  It is more indicative of Apple appropriately identifying 
a "where the puck is going to be".


>> It would take
>> some more research to determine if these holdouts are actually still in
>> production (and for what market segment) or if they're now down to "New
>> Old Stock" that's still available for sale.
> 
> Those were phones on sale at the time that the search was run.

I'm aware of that.  Now go back and check to see how many of those were 
actually --> still in production <-- versus being obsolete stock that 
was merely still available for sale.


> What's relevant is if you're on Android & you want an sd card or an aux
> jack or an FM radio, you can extremely easily find a model today with them,
> (since about half of Android phones sold today have one or more of them).

Incorrect, because your claim also means ~half have none of these 
features too.  And what have all three?  Probably just a tiny fraction.

Once again, you're just not being successful in identifying if any of 
these product feature are integral to product success in the, to 
demonstrate if Apple's disinclination towards them is "anti-consumer".

Indeed, if they were as much of a "pro consumer"  differentiator as 
you're trying to imply, then the fraction of Androids which featured all 
three should be quite large.  It isn't.



> Unfortunately, it also means that if you want a user-removable battery,
> then your choices are severely limited.
> 
> But it also shows Android hardware is always better than iPhone hardware
> (because Apple gives you no choice for any of those 4 hardware features).

But 95% of Android doesn't offer that choice either, so that feature is 
simply not an indicator.  Especially since you've not been able to show 
if the 5% residual is actually still in production, as opposed to left 
over inventory.


>>>>> And the software that drops support after a few years.
>>>>
>>>> The full software support for Android is far better than iOS for a
>>>> variety
>>>> of reasons which the Apple zealots would never be able to comprehend.
>>>
>>> No... ...it's really not.
>>
>> This doesn't actually matter, because fundamentally, its not a profound
>> statement:  by literal definition as per set theory, no subset of a
>> whole can ever be greater than the whole from which it was a subset.
> 
> Au contraire... given Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry,
> you're only saying bugfix support isn't important because it's not there.

Just what is "hotfix" supposed to mean here?  And why is it now being 
introduced as a new Goalpost?


>> As such, just what does 'full software support' really mean?
> 
> It's no longer shocking you didn't read Apple's own definition of full
> support, given you Apple religious zealots not only know nothing of Apple
> products - but you "think" you know everything about Android & iOS.
I've not read the fine print because I'm not a fanboy, nor have I ever 
had any issues or troubles from their current & historical level of 
product support:  I'm predominantly going by what you've tried to brag 
about, which I see as evidence of Android/Google trying to catch up.


>> Its only
>> of value if every Android smartphone sold is capable of using the 'full'
>> breadth of this software set (which is dang near impossible) and then
>> also only if this 'full' set is materially different (better) than
>> software sets from other providers (eg, Apple iOS).
> 
> Idiot. You're making lame excuses for Apple only patching all the bugs it
> knows about in only the latest iOS or mac release - which are dumb excuses.

How can any software developer patch bugs that they don't know about?

Or are you trying to criticize the entire industry for their practice of 
sun-setting support on old obsolete & superseded software that's if its 
used by anyone at all, its <0.0001% of the installed base?

If so, show us the dates of the latest bug & security updates for 
Android OS versions 1 (2008) through 6 (2015):  I'm sure that there's 
been zero for the past five years, if not longer.

> Apple's bugfix support for operating systems is the worst in the industry.

Unsubstantiated claim.  Golly, how about that.


>> Plus the Law of
>> Diminishing Returns applies too: just because something is "N+1" larger
>> doesn't mean that the "+1" increment is also significant.  To use a
>> analogy, $10,000,001 is pedantically "more money" than $10,000,000, but
>> that extra dollar doesn't make this difference be significant.
> 
> You didn't even read Apple's own explanation that they never patch all the
> hole in operating systems that they know exist - except the latest OS only.

You're correct that I didn't bother to read that, because all that one 
has to do to mitigate whatever theoretical risk you're concerned about 
is just to maintain one's equipment to the latest OS.  Since MacOS and 
iOS updates from Apple are free of charge, there's few reasons not to.


>>> Apple has mostly supported it's phones for longer than Samsung OR Google.
>>
>> Yes, that's been their track record history.
> 
> Apple's operating system support has _always_ been the worst in the
> industry. The only reason you don't know that is you don't know what Apple
> says about Apple NOT PATCHING all known bugs in any release but the latest.


Unsubstantiated claim.  Again.  Golly, how about that.


>>>> � *Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software
>>>> updates*
>>
>> These "7 years" announcements were clearly made to try to have their
>> products be better able to compete against Apple.
>>
>> Plus they're merely promises of future performance which remains yet to
>> be seen as achievable in real world practice. Let's wait to see what
>> their respective SEC filings say about these initiatives.
> 
> Why do you think the iPhone historically always has had more than twice the
> zero-day holes and more than 1-1/2 times the exploits of Android? > Do you think the fact the iPhone is exploited more and has more 0 
days may
> be because Apple's hotfix support is the worst in the industry perhaps?


"When asked why he robbed banks, Sutton simply replied,
'Because that's where the money is.'"


> See references in the sig since I speak facts about Apple & Android.

No need to, as you clearly don't sufficiently understand the industry.


-hh