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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: sci.logic,comp.theory Subject: Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement) Date: Mon, 27 May 2024 09:15:57 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 476 Message-ID: <v324iu$2pkb$1@dont-email.me> References: <v1mljr$1q5ee$4@dont-email.me> <v2b0jd$2u8oi$1@dont-email.me> <v2b17b$1ct7p$16@i2pn2.org> <v2b1dr$2u8oi$3@dont-email.me> <v2b9mo$1ecj9$2@i2pn2.org> <v2bb6d$308qd$2@dont-email.me> <v2bc5o$1ecj9$3@i2pn2.org> <v2bsog$36vvc$1@dont-email.me> <v2cpb1$1g2n8$1@i2pn2.org> <v2cvj6$3ddo5$1@dont-email.me> <v2d0qp$3dlkm$1@dont-email.me> <v2d1io$3dplm$1@dont-email.me> <v2evl5$3snmj$1@dont-email.me> <v2g2dp$3ugq$1@dont-email.me> <v2hkkl$ggq9$1@dont-email.me> <v2ibhe$ksut$1@dont-email.me> <v2k8go$1363g$1@dont-email.me> <v2l4hr$188bi$3@dont-email.me> <v2l87m$19619$1@dont-email.me> <v2lies$1b4kp$1@dont-email.me> <v2ltgl$1nrfv$2@i2pn2.org> <v2m0m5$1dcof$2@dont-email.me> <v2m4lg$1qo0t$1@i2pn2.org> <v2mtkj$1ln2l$1@dont-email.me> <v2ngi3$1or9h$8@dont-email.me> <v2pig4$28a91$1@dont-email.me> <v2qp30$2f6v4$1@dont-email.me> <v2s5td$2psu4$1@dont-email.me> <v2t9ne$2vna0$5@dont-email.me> <v2usea$3be7o$1@dont-email.me> <v2veqj$3e8pb$1@dont-email.me> <v31eit$3ugn4$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 27 May 2024 16:15:59 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="458305845cd025bf1a433877c96321fe"; logging-data="91787"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+cIlOxGS9r574PqWtjZnsX" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:7n8toGk90VXhMiUeYsNYH4OPL6M= In-Reply-To: <v31eit$3ugn4$1@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 24381 On 5/27/2024 3:00 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2024-05-26 13:52:17 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 5/26/2024 3:38 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2024-05-25 18:13:02 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> On 5/25/2024 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>> On 2024-05-24 19:16:47 +0000, olcott said: >>>>> >>>>>> On 5/24/2024 3:18 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>> On 2024-05-23 13:32:51 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/23/2024 3:09 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-23 01:03:44 +0000, Richard Damon said: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/24 7:55 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 6:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/24 3:52 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 11:58 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-22 15:55:39 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/22/2024 2:57 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-21 14:36:29 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/21/2024 3:05 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-20 17:48:40 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2024 2:55 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-19 14:15:51 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2024 9:03 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-19 13:41:56 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2024 6:55 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 11:47 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 6:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 6:47 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 5:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 4:00 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 2:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 12:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 1:26 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 11:56 AM, Richard Damon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 12:48 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 9:32 AM, Richard Damon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/18/2024 7:43 AM, Richard Damon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, your system contradicts itself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have never shown this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The most you have shown is a lack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of understanding of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truth Teller Paradox. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I have, but you don't understand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof, it seems because you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't know what a "Truth Predicate" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been defined to be. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My True(L,x) predicate is defined to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return true or false for every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite string x on the basis of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of a sequence of truth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preserving operations that derive x from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And thus, When True(L, p) established >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a sequence of truth preserving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operations eminationg from ~True(L, p) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by returning false, it contradicts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself. The problem is that True, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making an answer of false, has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asserted that such a sequence exists. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/13/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On 5/13/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On 5/13/2024 7:29 PM, Richard Damon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Remember, p defined as ~True(L, p) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Can a sequence of true preserving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operations applied >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to expressions that are stipulated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be true derive p? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > No, so True(L, p) is false >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Can a sequence of true preserving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operations applied >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to expressions that are stipulated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be true derive ~p? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > No, so False(L, p) is false, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To help you concentrate I repeated this* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Liar Paradox and your formalized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Liar Paradox both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradict themselves that is why they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must be screened >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out as type mismatch error >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-truth-bearers *BEFORE THAT OCCURS* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the Truth Predicate isn't allowed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "filter" out expressions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT IT DOESN'T >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE FORMAL SYSTEM USES THE TRUE AND FALSE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PREDICATE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TO FILTER OUT TYPE MISMATCH ERROR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The first thing that the formal system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does with any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arbitrary finite string input is see if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is a Truth-bearer: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, we can ask True(L, x) for any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression x and get an answer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The system is designed so you can ask this, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet non-truth-bearers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rejected before True(L, x) is allowed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be called. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not allowed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My True(L,x) predicate is defined to return >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true or false for every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite string x on the basis of the existence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a sequence of truth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preserving operations that derive x from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A set of finite string semantic meanings that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form an accurate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> verbal model of the general knowledge of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual world that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> form a finite set of finite strings that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stipulated to have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the semantic value of Boolean true. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (True(L,x) ∨ True(L,~x)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is computable* Truthbearer(L,x) ≡ ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========