Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###
Date: Tue, 28 May 2024 11:17:36 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <v347fh$hf5j$2@dont-email.me>
References: <v18e32$1vbql$1@dont-email.me> <v1t8tt$3gu9t$3@dont-email.me>
 <v1vc8j$3jmr$1@dont-email.me> <v1vsru$7eqc$1@dont-email.me>
 <v21r4i$otc2$2@dont-email.me> <v22k4b$umr4$1@dont-email.me>
 <v24oah$1h4u3$1@dont-email.me> <v256fc$1kais$1@dont-email.me>
 <v27d05$25ga0$1@dont-email.me> <v2838r$29rd7$1@dont-email.me>
 <v2a8th$2ps09$1@dont-email.me> <v2ahqc$2qvr9$1@dont-email.me>
 <v2cb5s$39fvg$1@dont-email.me> <v2crk0$3cifp$1@dont-email.me>
 <v2cvuo$3dfkm$1@dont-email.me> <v2i921$jvcs$5@dont-email.me>
 <v2k7fe$12vjm$1@dont-email.me> <v2l0q8$17mu1$1@dont-email.me>
 <v2n4f7$1ms87$1@dont-email.me> <v2nfma$1or9h$4@dont-email.me>
 <v2pkqq$28mg0$1@dont-email.me> <v2qhr2$2dpfr$6@dont-email.me>
 <v2s6kk$2q0pf$1@dont-email.me> <v2skde$2s65h$1@dont-email.me>
 <v2uthd$3bjch$1@dont-email.me> <v2vdkp$3dtct$3@dont-email.me>
 <v2vned$3fl3r$1@dont-email.me> <v2vp8f$3g0m3$1@dont-email.me>
 <v31f7s$3ukf5$1@dont-email.me> <v3236b$29pd$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3249e$28n59$1@i2pn2.org> <v325v5$2pkb$4@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 28 May 2024 11:17:44 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="fbe328d3fbd40e243e4b25f396044ad5";
	logging-data="572595"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/wbmbxSe5TaGqVw5o03GLu"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:beVN7Xv6SLSUeIEAb11MG4a7ixo=
Content-Language: en-GB
In-Reply-To: <v325v5$2pkb$4@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 4708

Op 27.mei.2024 om 16:39 schreef olcott:
> On 5/27/2024 9:10 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/27/24 9:52 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/27/2024 3:11 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-26 16:50:21 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> So that: *Usenet Article Lookup*
>>> http://al.howardknight.net/
>>> can see the whole message now that
>>> *the Thai spammer killed Google Groups*
>>>
>>> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>> 00       int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>>> 01       int D(ptr p)
>>> 02       {
>>> 03         int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>>> 04         if (Halt_Status)
>>> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
>>> 06         return Halt_Status;
>>> 07       }
>>> 08
>>> 09       int main()
>>> 10       {
>>> 11         H(D,D);
>>> 12         return 0;
>>> 13       }
>>>
>>>>> When we see that D correctly simulated by pure simulator H would 
>>>>> remain
>>>>> stuck in recursive simulation then we also know that D never 
>>>>> reaches its
>>>>> own line 06 and halts in less than an infinite number of correctly
>>>>> simulated steps.
>>>>
>>>> Which means that H never terminates. You said that by your definition
>>>> a function that never terminates is not a pure function. Therefore
>>>> H, if it exists, is not a pure function, and the phrase "pure function
>>>> H" does not denote.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *I should have said that more clearly*
>>> *That is why I need reviewers*
>>> *Here it is more clearly*
>>>
>>> When we hypothesize that H is a pure simulator we see that D correctly
>>> simulated by pure simulator H remains stuck in recursive simulation thus
>>> never reaches its own simulated final state at its line 06 and halts. In
>>> this case H does not halt, thus is neither a pure function nor a
>>> decider.
>>
>> But when you hypothesize that H is actually a "pure simulator" 
>> (presumably one that never aborts) then you are creating a D that uses 
>> that pure simulator, and are ONLY deriving conclusions for such a D.
>>
> 
> When D correctly simulated by pure simulator H cannot possibly reach
> its own simulated final state at line 06 and halt in an infinite number
> of simulated steps we can conclude that less than an infinite number of
> steps is also not enough steps for D to halt.
> 

When H correctly simulated by pure simulator H cannot possibly reach
its own simulated final state and halt in an infinite number
of simulated steps we can conclude that less than an infinite number of
steps is also not enough steps for H to halt.