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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own line 06
 and halt
Date: Fri, 31 May 2024 12:01:13 -0500
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On 5/31/2024 11:18 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 31.mei.2024 om 17:54 schreef olcott:
>> On 5/31/2024 10:37 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 31.mei.2024 om 16:25 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 5/31/2024 2:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 31.mei.2024 om 00:01 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 5/30/2024 4:54 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Thu, 30 May 2024 09:55:24 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>>>>>>> 00       int H(ptr p, ptr i);
>>>>>>>> 01       int D(ptr p)
>>>>>>>> 02       {
>>>>>>>> 03         int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
>>>>>>>> 04         if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>> 06         return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>> 07       }
>>>>>>>> 08
>>>>>>>> 09       int main()
>>>>>>>> 10       {
>>>>>>>> 11         H(D,D);
>>>>>>>> 12         return 0;
>>>>>>>> 13       }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The left hand-side are line numbers of correct C code.
>>>>>>>> This code does compile and does conform to c17.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everyone with sufficient knowledge of C can easily determine that D
>>>>>>>> correctly emulated by any *pure function* H (using an x86 emulator)
>>>>>>>> cannot possibly reach its own simulated final state at line 06 
>>>>>>>> and halt.
>>>>>>> Yeah, of course not, if H doesn’t halt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To actually understand my words (as in an actual honest dialogue)
>>>>>> you must pay careful attention to every single word. Maybe you
>>>>>> had no idea that *pure functions* must always halt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or maybe you did not know that every computation that never reaches
>>>>>> its own final state *DOES NOT HALT* even if it stops running because
>>>>>> it is no longer simulated. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Since the claim is that H is also a computation, it holds for H, as 
>>>>> well. That means that H *DOES NOT HALT* even if it stops running 
>>>>> because it is no longer simulated.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *pure function H definitely halts you are confused*
>>>>
>>>
>>> You can assume a unicorn, but that does not make it existent. You can 
>>> assume a simulating H that is a pure function and halts, but that 
>>> does not make them existent. The set of such H is empty.
>>
>> You simply ignored my proof that you are wrong.
>>
>> D correctly simulated by pure function HH cannot possibly reach
>> its own final state at line 06 in any finite number of steps of
>> correct simulation.
> 
> I do not ignore your claim. It is in fact exactly your claim that D does 
> not reach line 04 that proves that the simulation of HH does not reach 
> its own final state.
> 
> HH correctly simulated by HH cannot possibly reach its own final state 
> and return to D in any finite number of steps of correct simulation.

The dishonest dodge of the strawman deception CHANGE-THE-SUBJECT
fake rebuttal is the most common fake rebuttal that people try
to get way with.

*HERE IS THE ACTUAL POINT*
Whether HH is a pure simulator that never halts on input DD or a pure
function that halts on input DD there are no cases where DD correctly
simulated by HH reach their own simulated final state at line 06.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer