Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise ---
 pinned down --- canonical
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2024 16:29:36 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <v3g0bg$2n53n$18@i2pn2.org>
References: <v3501h$lpnh$1@dont-email.me> <v38gi5$1bndb$3@dont-email.me>
 <v38ici$2fohv$2@i2pn2.org> <v38j17$1c8ir$2@dont-email.me>
 <v38jgo$2foi0$14@i2pn2.org> <v38jv9$1c8ir$4@dont-email.me>
 <v39agi$1jiql$1@dont-email.me> <v39v3h$1mtd9$5@dont-email.me>
 <v3b9kj$2im02$1@i2pn2.org> <v3bale$222n5$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3bbs2$2im01$1@i2pn2.org> <v3bcre$22a8n$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3bduk$2im01$2@i2pn2.org> <v3bedb$22f8h$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3bfbm$2im01$3@i2pn2.org> <v3bg39$22o6m$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3cbhu$2k3ld$1@i2pn2.org> <v3clo2$28p7n$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3dft1$2lfup$1@i2pn2.org> <v3dhob$2dio8$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3dk0d$2lfup$2@i2pn2.org> <v3dkf2$2e2po$1@dont-email.me>
 <v3dmnc$2lfup$3@i2pn2.org> <v3do66$2ejq2$1@dont-email.me>
 <MPG.40c4fbcb474992459896fd@reader.eternal-september.org>
 <v3f9ha$2qh0t$1@dont-email.me> <v3ffpc$2n53n$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v3fgfb$2riae$2@dont-email.me> <v3fh1a$2n53o$5@i2pn2.org>
 <v3fhkr$2rsbs$2@dont-email.me> <v3fig4$2n53n$6@i2pn2.org>
 <v3fj8h$2rsbs$6@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2024 20:29:36 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
	logging-data="2856055"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
	posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg";
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <v3fj8h$2rsbs$6@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 4796
Lines: 74

On 6/1/24 12:46 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/1/2024 11:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/1/24 12:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/1/2024 11:08 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/24 11:58 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/1/2024 10:46 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/1/24 10:00 AM, olcott wrote: >> DD correctly simulated by HH 
>>>>>> remains stuck in recursive simulation
>>>>>>> all the time it is simulated even when an infinite number of steps
>>>>>>> are simulated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, are you admitting that HH just gets stuck and doesn't answer 
>>>>>> when asked HH(DD,DD)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Every DD correctly simulated by any HH remains stuck in recursive 
>>>>> simulation for 1 to ∞ steps of correct simulation.
>>>>
>>>> So? Since you definition of "Correct Simulation" is non-canonical, 
>>>> that doesn't mean anything.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *When the "canonical" definition tries to get away with refuting this*
>>>
>>> DD correctly emulated by HH with an x86 emulator cannot possibly
>>> reach past its own machine instruction [00001c2e] in any finite
>>> number of steps of correct emulation.
>>
>> No, it doesn't "Refute" that, 
> 
> *Then what I said stands unrefuted*
> *Then what I said stands unrefuted*
> *Then what I said stands unrefuted*

And unproven, and still meaningless.

> 
> *We can't move on to any other point until*
> (a) You acknowledge that my above statement about the behavior of the
> x86 machine code of DD is irrefutable and applies to the C source code 
> version of DD and applies to the Linz proof.
> 
> (b) You correctly refute what I said above about the behavior of the
> x86 machine code of DD.

But why do we care about the fact that all your HH that answer just gave 
up on their simulation before the actual canonically correct simulation 
would have reached a final state, and thus that you HH gave a 
canonically wrong answer to the question it was supposed to be answering?

> 
>>>
>>> _DD()
>>> [00001c22] 55         push ebp
>>> [00001c23] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>> [00001c25] 51         push ecx
>>> [00001c26] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> [00001c29] 50         push eax        ; push DD 1c22
>>> [00001c2a] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> [00001c2d] 51         push ecx        ; push DD 1c22
>>> [00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342   ; call HH
>>> [00001c33] 83c408     add esp,+08
>>> [00001c36] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>> [00001c39] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>> [00001c3d] 7402       jz 00001c41
>>> [00001c3f] ebfe       jmp 00001c3f
>>> [00001c41] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>> [00001c44] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>> [00001c46] 5d         pop ebp
>>> [00001c47] c3         ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0038) [00001c47]
>>>
>>
>