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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs ---
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2024 20:39:34 +0200
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Op 02.jun.2024 om 15:56 schreef olcott:
> On 6/2/2024 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-01 15:09:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 6/1/2024 3:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-29 18:31:52 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> *two dozen people were simply wrong*
>>>>
>>>> Why are people who are wrong so important that they deserve
>>>> a subject line? I would think that people who are right are
>>>> more interesting.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is the key mistake of the definition of the halting problem itself.
>>> Linz makes this same mistake. I already covered this extensively in
>>> another reply.
>>
>> The word "this" above does not denote anything so the first sentence
>> does not mean anything. The word "same" in the second sentence refers
>> to "this" in the first sentnece and therefore does not denote, either,
>> so the second sentence does not say anything either. So the third
>> sentence says that you covevered nothing.
>>
>>> That these two dozen different people are wrong about this shows that
>>> the only basis for any rebuttal of my proof for the last three years IS
>>> WRONG.
>>
>> That you claim that these two dozen people are wrong does not show
>> anything. It probably wouldn't even if you could show that they
>> really were wrong.
>>
> 
> The only one that I am aware that is not wrong about the behavior
> that a simulating halt decider must report on is myself.
> 
> Only software engineers will understand that DD correctly simulated
> by HH had different behavior than DD(DD). Comp Sci people allow Comp Sci
> dogma to overrule verified facts.
> 
> When I pinned Richard down on this he simply said that he does not care
> that DD correctly simulated by HH has different behavior than DD(DD).
> 
> It turns out that DD correctly simulated by HH <is> the behavior that
> the input to HH(DD,DD) specifies. Deciders are ONLY accountable for
> their actual inputs. Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS...
> 
> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
> 00       int HH(ptr p, ptr i);
> 01       int DD(ptr p)
> 02       {
> 03         int Halt_Status = HH(p, p);
> 04         if (Halt_Status)
> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
> 06         return Halt_Status;
> 07       }
> 08
> 09       int main()
> 10       {
> 11         HH(DD,DD);
> 12         return 0;
> 13       }
> 
> DD correctly emulated by HH with an x86 emulator cannot possibly
> reach past its own machine instruction [00001c2e] in any finite
> (or infinite) number of steps of correct emulation.

Only because the call to HH at [00001c2e] does not return, because HH 
does not reach its own return in any finite (or infinite) number of 
steps of correct emulation.

> 
> _DD()
> [00001c22] 55         push ebp
> [00001c23] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
> [00001c25] 51         push ecx
> [00001c26] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00001c29] 50         push eax        ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2a] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00001c2d] 51         push ecx        ; push DD 1c22
> [00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342   ; call HH
> [00001c33] 83c408     add esp,+08
> [00001c36] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
> [00001c39] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
> [00001c3d] 7402       jz 00001c41
> [00001c3f] ebfe       jmp 00001c3f
> [00001c41] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
> [00001c44] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
> [00001c46] 5d         pop ebp
> [00001c47] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0038) [00001c47]
> 

-- 
Paradoxes in the relation between Creator and creature.
<http://www.wirholt.nl/English>.