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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Deciders are ONLY accountable for their actual inputs ---
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2024 20:57:37 +0200
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Op 02.jun.2024 om 20:46 schreef olcott:
> On 6/2/2024 1:39 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 02.jun.2024 om 15:56 schreef olcott:
>>> On 6/2/2024 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-01 15:09:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/1/2024 3:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-05-29 18:31:52 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *two dozen people were simply wrong*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are people who are wrong so important that they deserve
>>>>>> a subject line? I would think that people who are right are
>>>>>> more interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the key mistake of the definition of the halting problem 
>>>>> itself.
>>>>> Linz makes this same mistake. I already covered this extensively in
>>>>> another reply.
>>>>
>>>> The word "this" above does not denote anything so the first sentence
>>>> does not mean anything. The word "same" in the second sentence refers
>>>> to "this" in the first sentnece and therefore does not denote, either,
>>>> so the second sentence does not say anything either. So the third
>>>> sentence says that you covevered nothing.
>>>>
>>>>> That these two dozen different people are wrong about this shows that
>>>>> the only basis for any rebuttal of my proof for the last three 
>>>>> years IS
>>>>> WRONG.
>>>>
>>>> That you claim that these two dozen people are wrong does not show
>>>> anything. It probably wouldn't even if you could show that they
>>>> really were wrong.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The only one that I am aware that is not wrong about the behavior
>>> that a simulating halt decider must report on is myself.
>>>
>>> Only software engineers will understand that DD correctly simulated
>>> by HH had different behavior than DD(DD). Comp Sci people allow Comp Sci
>>> dogma to overrule verified facts.
>>>
>>> When I pinned Richard down on this he simply said that he does not care
>>> that DD correctly simulated by HH has different behavior than DD(DD).
>>>
>>> It turns out that DD correctly simulated by HH <is> the behavior that
>>> the input to HH(DD,DD) specifies. Deciders are ONLY accountable for
>>> their actual inputs. Deciders compute the mapping FROM THEIR INPUTS...
>>>
>>> typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
>>> 00       int HH(ptr p, ptr i);
>>> 01       int DD(ptr p)
>>> 02       {
>>> 03         int Halt_Status = HH(p, p);
>>> 04         if (Halt_Status)
>>> 05           HERE: goto HERE;
>>> 06         return Halt_Status;
>>> 07       }
>>> 08
>>> 09       int main()
>>> 10       {
>>> 11         HH(DD,DD);
>>> 12         return 0;
>>> 13       }
>>>
>>> DD correctly emulated by HH with an x86 emulator cannot possibly
>>> reach past its own machine instruction [00001c2e] in any finite
>>> (or infinite) number of steps of correct emulation.
>>
>> Only because the call to HH at [00001c2e] does not return, because HH 
>> does not reach its own return in any finite (or infinite) number of 
>> steps of correct emulation.
>>
> 
> When HH correctly simulates DD and DD calls the simulated HH(DD,DD)
> to simulate itself again
> 
> *this simulated HH is not required to halt*
> *this simulated HH is not required to halt*
> *this simulated HH is not required to halt*
> *this simulated HH is not required to halt*

HH must halt. Therefore, a correct simulation of HH must halt, too. If 
it doesn't, either the simulation is incorrect, or HH does not halt.