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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_A_simulating_halt_decider_applied_to_the_The_Peter_Linz_Turing_Machine_description_=E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9_--_key_details?= Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 11:07:00 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 52 Message-ID: <v3jtj4$3qgmo$1@dont-email.me> References: <v2nsvh$1rd65$2@dont-email.me> <v327h8$3a17$1@dont-email.me> <v328l1$28n58$2@i2pn2.org> <v329t8$3mh0$2@dont-email.me> <v32ait$28n58$4@i2pn2.org> <v32bvc$48pj$1@dont-email.me> <v32cko$2937i$1@i2pn2.org> <v32nsa$6fo3$1@dont-email.me> <v32tfs$29dee$1@i2pn2.org> <v331mf$84p2$1@dont-email.me> <v332ci$29def$2@i2pn2.org> <v33790$8u5p$1@dont-email.me> <v337r0$29dee$2@i2pn2.org> <v338c5$94g8$1@dont-email.me> <v339kr$29dee$3@i2pn2.org> <v33aj7$9f3u$1@dont-email.me> <v33bo5$29def$4@i2pn2.org> <v33dt7$dlnv$1@dont-email.me> <v33f6d$29dee$4@i2pn2.org> <v33g9j$e3ug$1@dont-email.me> <v33gss$29def$6@i2pn2.org> <v33hbf$e6qn$1@dont-email.me> <v34fg0$2bb65$2@i2pn2.org> <v36pgt$12lh7$1@dont-email.me> <v379la$159q4$2@dont-email.me> <v398hu$1j7to$1@dont-email.me> <v39ue9$1mtd9$3@dont-email.me> <v3chls$280e0$1@dont-email.me> <v3cqnm$29gdk$1@dont-email.me> <v3ek0l$2maau$1@dont-email.me> <v3fbme$2qsgd$1@dont-email.me> <v3h7dn$38sid$1@dont-email.me> <v3hqqd$3bkv5$2@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2024 10:07:01 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="0e670f0fad830183dc51c091d8d9edbb"; logging-data="4014808"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19h0jajILrUulJnBWNibtMG" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:UxqEIxERMcn8fW6kvZmhY99CGx4= Bytes: 3632 On 2024-06-02 13:07:25 +0000, olcott said: > On 6/2/2024 2:36 AM, Mikko wrote: >> On 2024-06-01 14:37:01 +0000, olcott said: >> >>> On 6/1/2024 2:52 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>> On 2024-05-31 15:35:18 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>>> >>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ >>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞ >>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn >>>> >>>> Of those two lines one is false. >>>> As embedded_H is a copy of H both lines imply that H is not a halt decider. >>>> >>>>> *Formalizing the Linz Proof structure* >>>>> ∃H ∈ Turing_Machines >>>>> ∀x ∈ Turing_Machine_Descriptions >>>>> ∀y ∈ Finite_Strings >>>>> such that H(x,y) = Halts(x,y) >>>> >>>> As already noted, the above is not a part of a proof structure. >>>> >>> >>> Unless and until you provide reasoning to back that up it counts >>> as if you said nothing about it. >> >> If there are no more questions about the details of the reasoning >> we may assume that the presiented reasoning is sufficieant. >> > > The above <is> the structure of his proof your empty assertion utterly > bereft of any supporting (EAUBoaSR)) reasoning counts for zilch. Those how know what "structure" means can see that it is not a structure. > Linz claims that of every Turing Machine there are none that solve the > halting problem. And proves the claim. > ∃!H ∈ Turing_Machines (What Richard was saying) > would say that there does not exist exactly one Turing Machine that > solves the halting problem thus fails if there are more than one. Irrelevant as that is not what Linz' says. And you should not lie about Rchard. -- Mikko