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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: GUILTY. All 34 counts.
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 16:00:55 -0000 (UTC)
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Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>On 6/3/2024 7:31 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>May 31, 2024 at 7:43:16 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Sat, 1 Jun 2024 10:54:32 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>On 2024-05-31 10:46:00 +0000, FPP said:
>>>>>>>>On 5/31/24 4:48 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>On 5/30/24 4:17 PM, FPP wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>GUILTY. All 34 counts.

>>>>>>>>>I called it. Let the whining begin!

>>>>>>>>Yup... I was shooting for Friday.  Really surprised, since a half hour
>>>>>>>>before, the judge was shutting it down for the day.

>>>>>>>Trump the Chump's whining startedd immediately and his braindead
>>>>>>>supports declared "war" not long after.

>>>>>>>Not that this decision means anything in reality. The whole mess will
>>>>>>>drag on for years longer yet with numerous appeals, counter-appeals,
>>>>>>>etc. Trump the Chump and most of the witnesses will be dead of old age
>>>>>>>before it ends, and even then you'll probably have their kids trying to
>>>>>>>clear their names one way or another.

>>>>>>Not that long but yes, it will likely go on for a couple of years.
>>>>>>There are two level of appeals at the NY state level and then Trump
>>>>>>can try to jump to the US Supreme Court if both levels of appeal fail
>>>>>>to overturn the verdict.

>>>>>There's no direct appeal from state court to federal court. They have to
>>>>>find a federal issue to dispute.

>>>>There is a federal issue. The predicate crime that the state used to
>>>>bootstrap the state charges despite it being beyond the statute of
>>>>limitations was a federal crime, and one that both the DOJ and the FEC
>>>>had already looked at and determined there was no violation. So the
>>>>question of whether the entire basis of the state's case was valid is
>>>>a federal question.

>>>I am certainly not going to agree that the feds ever made a finding of no
>>>violation. Prosecutors never say that out loud, anyway, when there are no
>>>charges preferred against the target of the investigation. The FEC isn't
>>>doing its job if every entity those funds passed through didn't receive
>>>a letter in which they found campaign disclosure violations. Fines should
>>>have been issued.

>>>Do we know why prosecution was limited to Michael Cohen?

>>>Say, was Stormy Daniels herself obligated to make disclosure?

>>>I don't see how the issue is moot because the underlying crime can no
>>>longer be charged.

>>>Trump's complaints that Biden is behind the conspiracy are equal
>>>protection but I doubt there's an actual equal protection argument to
>>>make. Mark Levin's tweet, that I referenced elsewhere, had several due
>>>process arguments to make.

>>>But the issue of the state law itself cannot be contested in federal
>>>court.

>>Ok. The point BTR1701 made here has bothered me for days. I didn't track
>>down the language of the criminal statute Trump was charged under, but I
>>found descriptions of what the charges were. I'll assume it's consistent
>>with the law, else Trump would have gotten the charges thrown out.

>> 	In New York, in order for the charge of falsifying business
>> 	records to be bumped up to a felony, one must commit the crime
>> 	of falsifying business records when the "intent to defraud
>> 	includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal
>> 	the commission thereof."

>>https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/whats-in-trumps-indictment/

>>To provide the case, the state doesn't prove that there was a violation
>>of the underlying law. The state proves intent to commit another crime,
>>or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

>>The state must prove intent to commit the crime without, in fact,
>>proving that the underlying crime was committed?

>>Can one intend to commit a crime be proven without the crime having been
>>committed? The intent is the criminal act for the purpose of the
>>criminal charge of fraud based on proving intent in the underlying
>>crime?

>>I don't get it.

>Possession of tools to commit burglary.

I'm going to need a little more here to understand what the state must
prove. Do the police need to find evidence of what property was about to
be burgled? Otherwise I don't see how intent to commit the crime of
burglary could be proved.