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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Proof that executed HH(DD,DD) and simulated HH(DD,DD) simulate DD correctly Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 08:31:29 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 126 Message-ID: <v3ppbi$v133$9@dont-email.me> References: <v3neft$game$1@dont-email.me> <v3nf1l$gc4a$1@dont-email.me> <v3ngi8$gatu$2@dont-email.me> <v3p5lo$sg73$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2024 15:31:30 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="dbcb5a2e000d59c1dda264f94a647a93"; logging-data="1016931"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18nNv73zyGl+MbBvO5PokgQ" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:f26n5gCvr3Q4y/xJHh0r0/n23l8= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v3p5lo$sg73$1@dont-email.me> Bytes: 7524 On 6/5/2024 2:55 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: > Op 04.jun.2024 om 18:49 schreef olcott: >> On 6/4/2024 11:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>> Op 04.jun.2024 om 18:13 schreef olcott: >>>> Proof that executed HH(DD,DD) and simulated HH(DD,DD) simulate DD >>>> correctly. This proof requires expert knowledge of the C programming >>>> language and the x86 programming language. >>>> >>>> With this expertise it is easy to confirm that both the directly >>>> executed HH(DD,DD) and the simulated executed HH(DD,DD) simulate the >>>> steps of DD exactly the way that the x86 machine language specifies. >>>> >>>> If one also has expertise on the mapping from the C source code to the >>>> x86 assembly language then one also confirms that the x86 version of >>>> DD is exactly what the C source-code specifies. >>>> >>>> 01 int DD(int (*x)()) >>>> 02 { >>>> 03 int Halt_Status = HH(x, x); >>>> 04 if (Halt_Status) >>>> 05 HERE: goto HERE; >>>> 06 return Halt_Status; >>>> 07 } >>>> 08 >>>> 09 int main() >>>> 10 { >>>> 11 Output("Input_Halts = ", HH(DD,DD)); >>>> 12 } >>>> >>>> _DD() >>>> [00001db2] 55 push ebp >>>> [00001db3] 8bec mov ebp,esp >>>> [00001db5] 51 push ecx >>>> [00001db6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] >>>> [00001db9] 50 push eax ; push DD >>>> [00001dba] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>>> [00001dbd] 51 push ecx ; push DD >>>> [00001dbe] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH >>>> [00001dc3] 83c408 add esp,+08 >>>> [00001dc6] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax >>>> [00001dc9] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >>>> [00001dcd] 7402 jz 00001dd1 >>>> [00001dcf] ebfe jmp 00001dcf >>>> [00001dd1] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04] >>>> [00001dd4] 8be5 mov esp,ebp >>>> [00001dd6] 5d pop ebp >>>> [00001dd7] c3 ret >>>> Size in bytes:(0038) [00001dd7] >>>> >>>> machine stack stack machine assembly >>>> address address data code language >>>> ======== ======== ======== ========= ============= >>>> [00001de2][00103292][00000000] 55 push ebp >>>> [00001de3][00103292][00000000] 8bec mov ebp,esp >>>> [00001de5][0010328e][00001db2] 68b21d0000 push 00001db2 ; push DD >>>> [00001dea][0010328a][00001db2] 68b21d0000 push 00001db2 ; push DD >>>> [00001def][00103286][00001df4] e88ef5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH >>>> New slave_stack at:103336 >>>> >>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:11333e >>>> [00001db2][0011332a][0011332e] 55 push ebp ; DD line 01 >>>> [00001db3][0011332a][0011332e] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; DD line 02 >>>> [00001db5][00113326][001032fa] 51 push ecx ; DD line 03 >>>> [00001db6][00113326][001032fa] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] ; DD line 04 >>>> [00001db9][00113322][00001db2] 50 push eax ; push DD >>>> [00001dba][00113322][00001db2] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] ; DD line 06 >>>> [00001dbd][0011331e][00001db2] 51 push ecx ; push DD >>>> [00001dbe][0011331a][00001dc3] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH >>>> New slave_stack at:14dd5e >>>> [00001db2][0015dd52][0015dd56] 55 push ebp ; DD line 01 >>>> [00001db3][0015dd52][0015dd56] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; DD line 02 >>>> [00001db5][0015dd4e][0014dd22] 51 push ecx ; DD line 03 >>>> [00001db6][0015dd4e][0014dd22] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] ; DD line 04 >>>> [00001db9][0015dd4a][00001db2] 50 push eax ; push DD >>>> [00001dba][0015dd4a][00001db2] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] ; DD line 06 >>>> [00001dbd][0015dd46][00001db2] 51 push ecx ; push DD >>>> [00001dbe][0015dd42][00001dc3] e8bff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH >>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped >>>> >>>> [00001df4][00103292][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08 >>>> [00001df7][0010328e][00000000] 50 push eax >>>> [00001df8][0010328a][00000743] 6843070000 push 00000743 >>>> [00001dfd][0010328a][00000743] e8a0e9ffff call 000007a2 >>>> Input_Halts = 0 >>>> [00001e02][00103292][00000000] 83c408 add esp,+08 >>>> [00001e05][00103292][00000000] eb79 jmp 00001e80 >>>> [00001e80][00103292][00000000] 33c0 xor eax,eax >>>> [00001e82][00103296][00000018] 5d pop ebp >>>> [00001e83][0010329a][00000000] c3 ret >>>> Number of Instructions Executed(16829) == 251 Pages >>> >>> >>> It is clearly a false negative. >>> >>> Olcott defends a simulating halt decider H. The problem with it is, >>> that it introduces another halting problem: The H itself does not >>> halt when simulated by itself. This cause false negatives: many >>> functions are now diagnosed by H to be non-halting only by the mere >>> fact that they call H, even if their direct execution does halt. >> >> Clearly you did not pay close enough attention to Mike Terry's >> reply to you and/or you lack the required prerequisite skill >> in the C programming language and/or the x86 language. >> >> It never has mattered at all that HH(DD,DD) indirectly aborts >> a simulation of itself by aborting its simulation of DD. >> >> The directly executed HH sees that neither DD nor its simulation >> of itself can possibly halt and that <is> its correct basis for >> rejecting DD as non-halting. >> > It seems you are unable to read. I told you already that Mike's reply > has as a consequence that both HH and DD go in recursive recursion, so, > neither of them reaches its final state. > Try to show how the executed HH(DD,DD) that goes into a final state does not go into a final state. *This unequivocally proves the behavior of DD correctly simulated by HH* https://liarparadox.org/DD_correctly_simulated_by_HH_is_Proven.pdf -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer