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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Smith <news2@immibis.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Halting Problem is wrong two different ways Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 19:03:57 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 28 Message-ID: <v3q5pt$q84p$2@dont-email.me> References: <v3j20v$3gm10$2@dont-email.me> <J_CdnTaA96jxpcD7nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> <87h6eamkgf.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <v3kcdj$3stk9$1@dont-email.me> <v3kjs9$3u7ng$1@dont-email.me> <v3l16f$5d3$4@dont-email.me> <v3mj84$bq2d$1@dont-email.me> <v3njiv$gatu$9@dont-email.me> <v3og5t$328ec$9@i2pn2.org> <v3oh4q$pi6u$2@dont-email.me> <v3ohim$jthg$3@dont-email.me> <v3ohql$pi6u$4@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2024 19:03:58 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e20281d0cb42f07e03be2b832eb82761"; logging-data="860313"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/X+S1gRd8OECuCTFxspmyO" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:DvXw3nvlDi+YGfFeaPz5NPyZdAg= In-Reply-To: <v3ohql$pi6u$4@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 2590 On 5/06/24 04:16, olcott wrote: > On 6/4/2024 9:12 PM, John Smith wrote: >> On 5/06/24 04:05, olcott wrote: >>> On 6/4/2024 8:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> But the question it asks is an OBJECTIVE question that doesn't >>>> depend on who it is asked of. >>>> >>> >>> When H is asked about the behavior of a Machine that is programmed >>> to do the opposite of whatever it says then the context that it is H >>> that is being asked is an inherent aspect of the meaning of this >>> question and cannot be correctly ignored. >> >> Every machine does something. It either halts, or it doesn't. If a >> machine halts, then it halts even if you ask someone different. If the >> machine halts when I ask Bob whether it halts and he says it halts, >> then it still halts when I ask Alice whether it halts and she says it >> doesn't halt. Alice is wrong. The linguistic context doesn't change >> the fact that it halts. > > Professor Hehner proves my same point with Carol's question. > https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/OSS.pdf > > Richard found a loophole that I fixed and told professor Hehner about: > Can Carol correctly answer “no” to this (yes/no) question? > It's not "Can Carol" - it's "Does Carol"