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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: At least 100 people kept denying the easily verified fact --- last communication with Richard Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2024 09:50:58 -0400 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <v41nk2$3cg3t$16@i2pn2.org> References: <v3o2dj$jm9q$1@dont-email.me> <v3r914$354i9$7@i2pn2.org> <v3r9ds$1b96e$1@dont-email.me> <v3rb52$354ia$7@i2pn2.org> <v3rbaj$1bg3t$1@dont-email.me> <v3rc4m$354i9$8@i2pn2.org> <v3rcgn$1bpcn$1@dont-email.me> <v3rcks$354i9$9@i2pn2.org> <v3rd3r$1bsem$1@dont-email.me> <v3s5g6$36git$2@i2pn2.org> <v3sc8c$1gra7$2@dont-email.me> <v3tq33$388rj$13@i2pn2.org> <v3tstr$1td1o$2@dont-email.me> <v3tuqh$388ri$1@i2pn2.org> <v3v0qj$22vrk$1@dont-email.me> <v3v85d$39ri5$11@i2pn2.org> <v3vacl$242e9$8@dont-email.me> <v3vh9l$a5e$2@news.muc.de> <v3vhvq$25ojk$2@dont-email.me> <v3vj8p$39ri6$7@i2pn2.org> <v3vk9b$266aq$2@dont-email.me> <8c92495d4433776d8ddc4706fb1de05b245f5829.camel@gmail.com> <v3vn5u$26d04$1@dont-email.me> <400b355fb6d07340772b9308dece34b60fd6fcb4.camel@gmail.com> <v3vovc$27d15$1@dont-email.me> <385fc1f1467edc63a676d881f08f0bff52d5366c.camel@gmail.com> <v41i9j$2jqdk$1@dont-email.me> <v41kqk$3cg3t$6@i2pn2.org> <v41mp8$2kanc$5@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2024 13:50:58 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="3555453"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg"; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird In-Reply-To: <v41mp8$2kanc$5@dont-email.me> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 12447 Lines: 256 On 6/8/24 9:36 AM, olcott wrote: > On 6/8/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 6/8/24 8:20 AM, olcott wrote: >>> On 6/7/2024 11:18 PM, wij wrote: >>>> On Fri, 2024-06-07 at 15:01 -0500, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 6/7/2024 2:43 PM, wij wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 2024-06-07 at 14:31 -0500, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 6/7/2024 1:57 PM, wij wrote: >>>>>>>> On Fri, 2024-06-07 at 13:41 -0500, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2024 1:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/24 2:02 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2024 12:50 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> [ Followup-To: set ] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [ .... ] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _DD() >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e12] 55 push ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e13] 8bec mov ebp,esp >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e15] 51 push ecx >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e16] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e19] 50 push eax ; push DD >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e1a] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e1d] 51 push ecx ; push DD >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001e1e] e85ff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A {correct simulation} means that each instruction of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> above x86 machine language of DD is correctly simulated >>>>>>>>>>>>> by HH and simulated in the correct order. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That's a bit of sudden and substantial change, isn't it? >>>>>>>>>>>> Less than a >>>>>>>>>>>> few >>>>>>>>>>>> days ago, you were defining a correct simulation as "1 to N >>>>>>>>>>>> instructions" >>>>>>>>>>>> simulated (without ever specifying what you meant by N). It >>>>>>>>>>>> seems that >>>>>>>>>>>> the simulation of exactly one instruction would have met >>>>>>>>>>>> your criterion. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That now seems to have changed. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Because I am a relatively terrible writer I must constantly >>>>>>>>>>> improve my words on the basis of reviews. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Try to show how this DD correctly simulated by any HH ever >>>>>>>>>>> stops running without having its simulation aborted by HH. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _DD() >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e12] 55 push ebp >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e13] 8bec mov ebp,esp >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e15] 51 push ecx >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e16] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e19] 50 push eax ; push DD >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e1a] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e1d] 51 push ecx ; push DD >>>>>>>>>>> [00001e1e] e85ff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A {correct simulation} means that each instruction of the >>>>>>>>>>> above x86 machine language of DD is correctly simulated >>>>>>>>>>> by HH and simulated in the correct order. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone claiming that HH should report on the behavior >>>>>>>>>>> of the directly executed DD(DD) is requiring a violation >>>>>>>>>>> of the above definition of correct simulation. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And thus you admit that HH is not a Halt Decider, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> More dishonest deflection. >>>>>>>>> The point that I made and you try to deflect using the strawman >>>>>>>>> deception as a fake rebuttal is the I just proved that DD is >>>>>>>>> correctly >>>>>>>>> simulated by HH and this is not the same behavior as the directly >>>>>>>>> executed DD(DD). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Halting Problem asks for a program H (precisely a TM) that: >>>>>>>> IF H(D,D)==1, THEN D(D) will return. >>>>>>>> ELSE If H(D,D)==0, THEN D(D) will never return. >>>>>>>> ELSE HP is undecidable >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You keep solving POOH !!! and made lots of lies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Surrender to my GUR, son. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If people are going to be dishonest about simple things >>>>>>> such as the actual behavior of actual x86 code where >>>>>>> they consistently deny verified facts >>>>>>> >>>>>>> then we certainly cannot trust these people with more >>>>>>> difficult issues that require at least some slight degree >>>>>>> of judgment call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we can show that even in the halting problem HH >>>>>>> is only required to report on the behavior of DD correctly >>>>>>> simulated by HH these dishonest people merely use that >>>>>>> as another deflection point for their dishonesty. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The way around this that just worked is to stay diligently >>>>>>> focused one one single point until the dishonest people >>>>>>> finally admit that they have simply ignored all the proofs >>>>>>> for three solid years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6/5/2024 10:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> > On 6/5/24 11:44 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> THIS IS ALL THAT YOU WILL EVER GET TO TALK >>>>>>> >> TO ME ABOUT UNTIL YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT >>>>>>> >> I AM CORRECT OR YOU PROVE THAT I AM INCORRECT >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > But, as I said, I won't acknowledge that you >>>>>>> > are correct, because I am not willing to put >>>>>>> > that effort into your worthless claim. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is the earliest version of the proof (that everyone >>>>>>> has simply ignored for three solid years) that P correctly >>>>>>> simulated by H would never stop running unless aborted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation >>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351947980_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The fact that the execution trace of P derived by the executed >>>>>>> H and the simulated H exactly matches the machine code of P >>>>>>> proves that each instruction of P was simulated correctly and >>>>>>> in the correct order this conclusively proves that P is correctly >>>>>>> simulated by both of these instances of H. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has proved this since 2021-09-26 and everyone has made >>>>>>> sure to ignore this proof so that they can maintain their false >>>>>>> assumption. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Try to show how this DD correctly simulated by any HH ever >>>>>>> stops running without having its simulation aborted by HH. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _DD() >>>>>>> [00001e12] 55 push ebp >>>>>>> [00001e13] 8bec mov ebp,esp >>>>>>> [00001e15] 51 push ecx >>>>>>> [00001e16] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] >>>>>>> [00001e19] 50 push eax ; push DD >>>>>>> [00001e1a] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>>>>>> [00001e1d] 51 push ecx ; push DD >>>>>>> [00001e1e] e85ff5ffff call 00001382 ; call HH >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A {correct simulation} means that each instruction of the >>>>>>> above x86 machine language of DD is correctly simulated >>>>>>> by HH and simulated in the correct order. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone claiming that HH should report on the behavior >>>>>>> of the directly executed DD(DD) is requiring a violation >>>>>>> of the above definition of correct simulation. ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========