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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should
 I quit Richard at this point?
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2024 18:25:08 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 6/8/24 5:58 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/8/2024 4:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/8/24 5:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/8/2024 4:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/8/24 5:14 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/8/2024 3:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/8/24 4:52 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/8/2024 3:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/8/24 4:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2024 3:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/24 1:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2024 11:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2024 10:15 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/24 11:07 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2024 9:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/24 10:20 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/8/2024 9:10 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I HAVE pointed out what is missing, ANY set of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth-perserving operations from the accepted facts 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which will of course need to name the fact they are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working from) to your conclusion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The accepted facts are here
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (a) The x86 language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (b) The notion of an x86 emulator
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {The proof that No DDD correctly emulated by any x86
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   emulator H can possibly reach its own [00001df6] 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instruction}
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how do you show this claim?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a tracing of the full INFINITE SET of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible Hs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is the set of possible execution traces of DDD correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by x86 emulator HH on the basis of the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accepted facts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe you are just clueless about these technical details
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are are trying to hide this with pure bluster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001de2] 55         push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001de3] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001de5] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001de8] 50         push eax         ; push DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001de9] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001dec] 51         push ecx         ; push DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001ded] e890f5ffff call 00001382    ; call HH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001df2] 83c408     add esp,+08
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001df5] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00001df6] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0021) [00001df6]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You keep disagreeing with the fact that DDD correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by x86 emulator HH only has one single correct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> execution trace of repeating the fist seven lines until
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out-of-memory error.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But that is an INCORRECT trace per your definition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The call HH instruction MUST be simulated into HH 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that IS the behavior of the x86 instruction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did I ever say that it is not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the above DDD correctly emulated by x86 emulator HH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the first seven instructions of DD keep repeating because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD keeps calling HH(DDD,DDD) to emulate itself again and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again until HH/DDD hits out-of-memory exception.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So the x86 emulation of the code must go into HH(DDD,DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is pretty stupid to assume otherwise when HH is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stipulated to be an x86 emulator.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, so why did you say otherwise?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I never said otherwise you simply "read" meanings that I 
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't say.
>>>>>>>>>>> this thread: [Should I quit Richard at this point?]
>>>>>>>>>>> stands alone and should not be interpreted within the
>>>>>>>>>>> context of anything else that I ever said.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, we are NOT to use your previous statements for earlier posts?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You keep on changing you mind, and not being clear. That shows 
>>>>>>>>>> your deceitful nature.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I must increasing narrow the focus of attention to ever
>>>>>>>>> get any closure on as many as one single point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The one point now is that DD correctly simulated by HH
>>>>>>>>> proves that HH is correct to reject DD as non-halting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which is incorrect, because you are using the wrong definition 
>>>>>>>> of correct simulation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For three years every reviewer has essentially insisted that the
>>>>>>>>> correct measure of the behavior of DD is DD incorrectly simulated
>>>>>>>>> by HH. The behavior of the directly executed DD(DD) cannot 
>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>> be achieved by DD correctly simulated by HH as the x86 
>>>>>>>>> machine-code
>>>>>>>>> of DD *conclusively proves BEYOND ALL POSSIBLE DOUBT*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, and if that is what your though, you are just an idiot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When one disagrees with the execution trace that x86 code specifies
>>>>>>> one is essentially doing the same thing as disagreeing with 
>>>>>>> arithmetic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And where does that say that the correct measure of the behavior 
>>>>>> of DD is DD incorrectly simulated?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I cut you off at your first big mistake so that we can focus
>>>>> on correcting this big mistake.
>>>>
>>>> And ignored the meaning of my statemert, and made you into a 
>>>> blantent LIAR.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *I can't address all of this point in one step because you*
>>>>> *have proven that even one step is too confusing for you*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I can't address all of this point in one step because you*
>>>>> *have proven that even one step is too confusing for you*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I can't address all of this point in one step because you*
>>>>> *have proven that even one step is too confusing for you*
>>>>> HERE IS STEP ONE
>>>>>
>>>>> _DD()
>>>>> [00001c22] 55         push ebp
>>>>> [00001c23] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>> [00001c25] 51         push ecx
>>>>> [00001c26] 8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>>>> [00001c29] 50         push eax      ; push DD 1c22
>>>>> [00001c2a] 8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>>>> [00001c2d] 51         push ecx      ; push DD 1c22
>>>>> [00001c2e] e80ff7ffff call 00001342 ; call HH
>>>>>
>>>>> *When DD is correctly simulated by simulating halt decider HH*
>>>>>
>>>>> New slave_stack at:10306d
>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:113075
>>>>>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>>>>>   address   address   data      code       language
>>>>>   ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
>>>>> [00001c22][00113061][00113065] 55         push ebp         ; begin DD
>>>>> [00001c23][00113061][00113065] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
>>>>> [00001c25][0011305d][00103031] 51         push ecx
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========