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From: Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Quantum mystics
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 23:58:54 +0200
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On 6/10/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 22:31:08 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
> 
>> On 6/10/24 20:59, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:25:30 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/10/24 16:20, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 06:04:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Sun, 9 Jun 2024 20:46:53 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman
>>>>>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <v44t6u$3n7fn$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just watched a talk by Anton Zeilinger, professor of physics
>>>>>>> at the university of Vienna, and 2022 Nobel laureate, about
>>>>>>> quantum effects and entanglement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I feel a rant bubbling up!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The guy is a mystic, a fraud! He pretended to demonstrate that
>>>>>>> light consists of particles by showing a little box that starts
>>>>>>> clicking, like a Geiger counter, when exposed to light. Even if
>>>>>>> the little box really did detect light, that means nothing! Light
>>>>>>> *detection* is quantized, yes, but that does not imply that light
>>>>>>> itself is so too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He attempted to convince the public that entanglement means that
>>>>>>> the results of measurements made at two remote places come out
>>>>>>> identically, and without any time delay. That's just not true,
>>>>>>> but he didn't even give a hint of how this really works. He did
>>>>>>> not mention that you have to make *correlated* measurements to
>>>>>>> detect entanglement. For that, you need to communicate *what*
>>>>>>> measurement is to be made at each location, and that implies
>>>>>>> that you either prescribe the exact measurement in advance or
>>>>>>> select a subset of the results after the fact. Either way, this
>>>>>>> skews the data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's in it for the money and the fame. Grrr. And he's one of
>>>>>>> many, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, so much quantum crap, almost like glowball worming sales...
>>>>>> Perfessors, Albert the stone counter..
>>>>>> This is nice and came close to the space filled with a fluid paper you gave a link to:
>>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/06/240606152154.htm
>>>>>>     it is likely not 100% correct, but a fluid of femtoscopic black holes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my school days I came across cases that were obviously wrong,
>>>>>> I declined arguing with the teacher in the days before the exams..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Entanglement
>>>>>> Imagine you on the beach.
>>>>>> You put a ball in the water, and a few meters away somebody else does the same.
>>>>>> Mysteriously both balls go up and down at the same moment,
>>>>>> 'entangled'
>>>>>> Wave crashing on the beach.
>>>>>> There was an experiment recently where they had 2 detectors in the lab, meters away,
>>>>>> connected by a mile of fiber.
>>>>>> Photons were entangled...
>>>>>> Well , in that beach experiment you can tie a wire a mile long between the balls and they still go up and down the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is simplified, but the detection is then indeed quantified.
>>>>>> I like to play with PMTs etc, do those perfessors know ANYTHING about the equipment they use?
>>>>>> Or even DESIGNED anything ?
>>>>>
>>>>> But photon entanglement can't be explained, or even thought about, in
>>>>> classic-physics terms.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nor can single-photon interferance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just accept and enjoy it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's false! Entanglement and interference can easily be understood
>>>> in terms of waves and quantized detectors. It's the QM view, with its
>>>> imagined photon particle flying everywhere at once that is confusing.
>>>>
>>>> What size do you imagine a photon to be?
>>>
>>> It's unlimited. You can have an interferometer with different arm
>>> lengths and still get single-photon interferance.
>>>
>>> I noticed that on a lithium niobate Mach-Zender e/o modulator. The
>>> interfering path lengths are different by thousands of wavelengths.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly! The path length difference is limited only by the coherence
>> length of the light source. This is all quite natural when thinking
>> in terms of waves. When you think of it in terms of photons, it stops
>> making any sense.
>>
>> Jeroen Belleman
> 
> A single photon has an infinite coherence length.
> 
> What's weird is that I can pulse a superfast laser and hit a detector
> with picosecond time delay jitter, even though another experiment
> shows that each photon is very long.
> 
> It's apparently easy for you to accept that light is made of waves
> until it's detected, at which time it turns into particles.
> 
> That's the part that's magical to me.
> 

I wouldn't say it like that. I'd say that the incident wave causes
a detection event. I'd never say that *light* is a particle. Where
matter and waves interact, quantization occurs.

Jeroen Belleman