Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (Tears) Report on Probability A by Brian W. Aldiss
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:42:44 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <v47vha$lmqt$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v448ev$j27$1@reader1.panix.com> <20240609a@crcomp.net>
 <v453ek$3p8on$1@dont-email.me> <v46hbr$bb49$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 00:42:50 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="0b45e2761decc93610ed46947146aaa8";
	logging-data="711517"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/Bx0ueaVIsjALioI38Vrjq"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.18.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:gsdoK+Kl/4V5fmCGZNSd5Xli0OY=
In-Reply-To: <v46hbr$bb49$1@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 3253

Dudley Brooks wrote:
> On 6/9/24 1:30 PM, William Hyde wrote:
>> Don wrote:
>>> James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> Report on Probability A by Brian W. Aldiss
>>>>
>>>> A New Wave tale of observational recursion,
>>>>
>>>> https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/a-straight-a-student
>>>
>>> Thank you for the embedded link to _The Hireling Shepherd_. It's another
>>> example where an artistic image's blatant symbolism clobbers me in the
>>> head with the force of the stupid hammer.
>>>      _The Hireling Shepherd_ brings to mind a similar sexual 
>>> situation in
>>> _Fifth Business_ (Davies). The author, apparently an aficionado of
>>> Shakespeare, kindly defines Fifth Business in his preface. Perhaps you,
>>> in your role of theater staff member, also recognize the phrase, James.
>>>
>>>      Fifth Business … Definition
>>>
>>>      Those roles which, being neither those of
>>>      Hero nor Heroine, Confidante nor Villain,
>>>      but which were none the less essential to
>>>      bring about the Recognition or the dénouement
>>>      were called the Fifth Business in drama
>>>      and opera companies organized according
>>>      to the old style; the player who acted these
>>>      parts was often referred to as Fifth Business.
>>>
>>>      —Tho. Overskou, Den Danske Skueplads
>>
>>
>> Davies invented the term, and this quotation.
> 
> I've only read that he admitted to making up the quotation, not the term 
> itself.  I could completely believe that it's a real theatrical or 
> operatic term -- it makes perfect sense.  But I never heard it while 
> performing with San Francisco Opera Ballet.  And I can't find it in the 
> OED, at least not the online version.  So I guess Davies did make it up. 
>   (But I'm going to ask a friend who owns the complete OED to check.)


Please do.  I know he worked at the Old Vic for some years, and wrote 
plays himself before turning to novels.   So he might have known the 
phrase if it existed, or made it up as it is useful.


William Hyde