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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: sci.logic,comp.theory
Subject: Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:57:02 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 6/12/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/12/2024 6:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/12/24 11:40 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/11/24 11:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/11/2024 10:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/11/24 10:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 9:34 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 9:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 6:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 1:30 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 10:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/24 12:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This entails that if there is nothing in the universe that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression X true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then it is self-evident that this <is> the way that truth 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how does that apply to something that isn't a part of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "the universe", as Formal Logic systems are not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *STOPPING AT YOUR FIRST RIDICULOUSLY HUGE MISTAKE*
>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you are saying that formal system have never
>>>>>>>>>>> existing in any way what-so-ever?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, and I don't see where you get that from, except to not 
>>>>>>>>>> understand the meaning of a universe.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The universe is all of space and time[a] and their contents.
>>>>>>>>> It comprises all of existence, any fundamental interaction, 
>>>>>>>>> physical
>>>>>>>>> process and physical constant, and therefore all forms of 
>>>>>>>>> energy and
>>>>>>>>> matter, and the structures they form, from sub-atomic particles to
>>>>>>>>> entire galactic filaments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AKA *EVERYTHING* Duh !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But it is only ONE of an infinite number of such systems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I have to dumb it down for you: *EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me dumb it down for you:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, where are the Natural Numbers is THIS UNIVERSE?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can the finite universe hold all of the infinite set?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about the bigger set of the Reals?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Answer me please.
>>>>>
>>>>> Algorithmic compression.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And where does THAT exist as something physical in the universe?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Where did I ever say that I am restricting this to physical things?
>>> Truth itself is a pure mental abstraction.
>>>
>>
>> How many times did you reference "Physical" in this statement from above?
>>
>>>
>>> The universe is all of space and time[a] and their contents.
>>> It comprises all of existence, any fundamental interaction, physical
>>> process and physical constant, and therefore all forms of energy and
>>> matter, and the structures they form, from sub-atomic particles to
>>> entire galactic filaments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
>>>
>>> AKA *EVERYTHING* Duh !
>>>
>>
>>
>> What in that refers to anything not related to physical objects and 
>> their interactions?
>>
>> Where do "Natural Numbers" fit in there?
>>
> 
> In other words you are trying to get away with saying that the
> concept and definition of natural number is not in the set of
> all things thus has no existence what-s-ever thus you never
> asked that question.
> 

Nope. The concept and definition of natural numbers exist, but doesn't 
derive from any part of the "universe".

Note, they don't "exist" as a substance, only as a concept, and the 
universe is substance.

> https://liarparadox.org/GodsPlan.gif
> The fourth and sixth step of the above tree divides
> reality into physical existence and conceptual existence.
> 
> 

And why do you think that is the actual order things happened?

And what does that have to do with your claim that Natural Numbers exist 
in the universe.