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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.logic,comp.theory
Subject: Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:37:20 -0500
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On 6/12/2024 7:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/12/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/12/2024 6:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/12/24 11:40 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/11/24 11:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 10:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 10:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 9:34 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 9:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 6:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 1:30 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 10:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/24 12:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generic answer is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This entails that if there is nothing in the universe that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression X true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then it is self-evident that this <is> the way that truth 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, how does that apply to something that isn't a part of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "the universe", as Formal Logic systems are not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *STOPPING AT YOUR FIRST RIDICULOUSLY HUGE MISTAKE*
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you are saying that formal system have never
>>>>>>>>>>>> existing in any way what-so-ever?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, and I don't see where you get that from, except to not 
>>>>>>>>>>> understand the meaning of a universe.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The universe is all of space and time[a] and their contents.
>>>>>>>>>> It comprises all of existence, any fundamental interaction, 
>>>>>>>>>> physical
>>>>>>>>>> process and physical constant, and therefore all forms of 
>>>>>>>>>> energy and
>>>>>>>>>> matter, and the structures they form, from sub-atomic 
>>>>>>>>>> particles to
>>>>>>>>>> entire galactic filaments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AKA *EVERYTHING* Duh !
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But it is only ONE of an infinite number of such systems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I have to dumb it down for you: *EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me dumb it down for you:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, where are the Natural Numbers is THIS UNIVERSE?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can the finite universe hold all of the infinite set?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about the bigger set of the Reals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Answer me please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Algorithmic compression.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And where does THAT exist as something physical in the universe?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where did I ever say that I am restricting this to physical things?
>>>> Truth itself is a pure mental abstraction.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How many times did you reference "Physical" in this statement from 
>>> above?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The universe is all of space and time[a] and their contents.
>>>> It comprises all of existence, any fundamental interaction, physical
>>>> process and physical constant, and therefore all forms of energy and
>>>> matter, and the structures they form, from sub-atomic particles to
>>>> entire galactic filaments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
>>>>
>>>> AKA *EVERYTHING* Duh !
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What in that refers to anything not related to physical objects and 
>>> their interactions?
>>>
>>> Where do "Natural Numbers" fit in there?
>>>
>>
>> In other words you are trying to get away with saying that the
>> concept and definition of natural number is not in the set of
>> all things thus has no existence what-s-ever thus you never
>> asked that question.
>>
> 
> Nope. The concept and definition of natural numbers exist, but doesn't 
> derive from any part of the "universe".
> 
> Note, they don't "exist" as a substance, only as a concept, and the 
> universe is substance.
> 

OF EVERYTHING IF THERE IS NOTHING THAT MAKES AN EXPRESSION
OF LANGUAGE X TRUE THENN (THEN AND ONLY THEN) X HAS NO TRUTH-MAKER.

FOR THE SAME X
OF EVERYTHING IF THERE IS NOTHING THAT MAKES AN EXPRESSION
OF LANGUAGE ~X TRUE THENN (THEN AND ONLY THEN) X IS NOT A TRUTH-BEARER.



>> https://liarparadox.org/GodsPlan.gif
>> The fourth and sixth step of the above tree divides
>> reality into physical existence and conceptual existence.
>>
>>
> 
> And why do you think that is the actual order things happened?
> 
> And what does that have to do with your claim that Natural Numbers exist 
> in the universe.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer