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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite
 sting transformations
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:07:35 -0500
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On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/24 8:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the
>>>>>>>>> behavior of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a
>>>>>>>>> UTM.
>>>>>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>>>>>> transforming the finite string of its input into the behavior that
>>>>>>>> it specifies using finite string transformation rules.
> And give the right answer: does D(D) halt?
>>>>>>> Yes, it only CAN do what it can compute, but what it MUST do is
>>>>>>> answer the question posed to it, which might be impossible. And
>>>>>>> that Question is about the behavior of the direct execution of the
>>>>>>> machine represented by its input.
>>>>>> *H is not even being asked that question*
> Oh yes, it is. We want to know if D(D) halts.
>>>>> So, H isn't a Halt Decider?
>>>>> Because the question being asked of *ALL* halt deciders, is "Does the
>>>>> machine/input described by its input halt when it is run?"
>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
> H answers the wrong question.
>>> How do you say that?
>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
> 
>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing the
>>>> mapping from its finite string input to the behavior specified by this
>>>> finite string input.
>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
> Nitwit. It can't derive the answer.
> 
>>>> When it does this it does not end up with the behavior of the directly
>>>> executed D(D).
>>> Which just means it fails to do what it must to be a Halt decider.
>> H must compute question that it is being asked.
> Which is "does D(D) halt?", not "can I simulate this?".
> 

Halt deciders do not generally understand English, your assumption
that they do is ridiculously false.

H(D,D) computes the mapping from its finite string input to derive
the behavior that it must report on.

int sum(int x, int y) {return x + y; }
sum(3,4) must provide the sum of 3+4 EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.

H(D,D) must provide that halt status of D correctly simulated by H
EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.

You may believe in your mind that H(D,D) must report on the behavior
of D(D) yet H(D,D) does not share this belief.

There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).

>> The question that H computes IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D). IT DOES NOT
>> MATTER HOW MUCH IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
> Then H is not the halt decider you are looking for.
> 

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer