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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 22:35:56 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 6/13/24 11:08 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/13/2024 9:35 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> [ Followup-To: set ]
>>
>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/13/2024 3:49 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:25:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>
>> [ .... ]
>>
>>>>>>>> As I pointed out, there ARE finite-string transformations that 
>>>>>>>> do it,
>>>>>>>> that is a UTM.
>>
>>>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the 
>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>> of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a UTM.
>>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>>> transforming [it] into the behavior that it
>>>>> specifies using finite string transformation rules.
>>>>> *H DOES NOT simply guess what you think it should do and do that*
>>>> It has a *specification* it must fulfill.
>>
>>
>>> The specification is only in your own mind ....
>>
>> The specification is "calculate whether a particular program with a
>> particular input halts".
>>
> 
> Yes that <is> what the textbooks say, none-the-less halt deciders
> really cannot read textbooks. Instead they go by the behavior that
> their input specifies.

And apparently YOU can't either.



> 
> All halt deciders compute the mapping from their inputs...

And to be a xxxx decider, they must compute the xxxx mapping.

Since Halting is the mapping of the program described by the input to where

> 
> When we actually compute the mapping from the x86 machine language
> finite string input to H(D,D) using the finite string transformation
> rules specified by the semantics of the x86 programming language this
> DOES NOT MAP TO THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D).

But we CAN do that. Run the program and see what it does.


> 
> When I ask anyone to show the detailed steps of the mapping from
> the machine language finite string of D to the behavior of D(D)
> *THEY CHANGE THE SUBJECT BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNOW THAT I AM CORRECT*

But you have changed the subject, the ACTUAL subject is to show what the 
mapping should be, which we CAN get by just running the program.

You asking how H can do it is irrelevent, except to show that either it 
can or can not be decider by a finite decider.

It turns out it can't so it seems that the "Correct simulation of the 
input by H" isn't a suitable computation method for the problem.

> 
> _D()
> [00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp
> [00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp
> [00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D
> [00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D
> [00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H
> [00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08
> [00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax
> [00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17
> [00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax
> [00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c
> [00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001
> [00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp
> [00000d1d](01) c3          ret
> Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]
>