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Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 22:14:52 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 38 Message-ID: <v4gcjc$2msea$1@dont-email.me> References: <v45tec$4q15$1@dont-email.me> <v48be9$rgsh$1@dont-email.me> <v48gh6$3kcoe$4@i2pn2.org> <v48jv2$se9c$1@dont-email.me> <v49dge$3kcoe$5@i2pn2.org> <v4a0hs$157ic$3@dont-email.me> <v4ak5o$3kcoe$6@i2pn2.org> <v4am8r$19edk$1@dont-email.me> <v4apjs$19rnv$1@dont-email.me> <v4arp0$1a7uo$1@dont-email.me> <v4b1c3$3nf9n$3@i2pn2.org> <v4b50m$1f89t$5@dont-email.me> <v4c12r$3oop0$3@i2pn2.org> <v4cjl7$1o4b4$1@dont-email.me> <v4d991$3qbnc$1@i2pn2.org> <v4da12$1sioe$1@dont-email.me> <v4dbmf$3qbnc$3@i2pn2.org> <v4dcd6$1sioe$3@dont-email.me> <v4df0h$3qbnd$1@i2pn2.org> <v4dhf5$1tsdf$2@dont-email.me> <v4dja1$3qbnd$5@i2pn2.org> <v4djhf$1tsdf$6@dont-email.me> <v4dk7b$3qbnc$8@i2pn2.org> <v4dl3b$225kb$1@dont-email.me> <v4dn5u$3qbnd$8@i2pn2.org> <v4dop4$22o4a$2@dont-email.me> <v4dq07$3qbnc$12@i2pn2.org> <v4dqq0$2353n$1@dont-email.me> <v4el9m$3rsd6$3@i2pn2.org> <v4f3ec$2akmh$2@dont-email.me> <v4g65a$3tn6q$1@i2pn2.org> <v4g6vr$2ic0g$1@dont-email.me> <v4gc0b$3tn6r$6@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2024 05:14:53 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e98c84ba8c24dba675dc413b0edf993a"; logging-data="2847178"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+VHiMKVC9778NxXlCyuPnz" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:hPkR4Xu/1PGetfNU0tHKhMOD/LI= In-Reply-To: <v4gc0b$3tn6r$6@i2pn2.org> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 3340 On 6/13/2024 10:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 6/13/24 9:39 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote: >>>> >>>> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H computes >>>> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to >>>> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by >>>> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the >>>> behavior of the directly executed D(D) >>>> >>> >>> Why? I don't claim it can. >>> >> >> That means that H cannot even be asked the question: >> "Does D halt on its input?" > > WHy not? After all, H does what it does, the PERSON we ask is the > programmer. > *When H and D have a pathological relationship to each other* There is no way to encode any H such that it can be asked: Does D(D) halt? You must see this from the POV of H or you won't get it. H cannot read your theory of computation textbooks, it only knows what it directly sees, its actual input. If there is no possible way for H to transform its input into the behavior of D(D) then H cannot be asked about the behavior of D(D). -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer