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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2024 20:59:09 -0500
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On 6/14/2024 8:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/14/24 8:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/14/2024 6:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/14/24 9:15 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/14/2024 6:39 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/14/24 12:13 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No it is more than that.
>>>>>> H cannot even be asked the question:
>>>>>> Does D(D) halt?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, you just don't understand the proper meaning of "ask" when 
>>>>> applied to a deterministic entity.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When H and D have a pathological relationship to each
>>>> other then H(D,D) is not being asked about the behavior
>>>> of D(D). H1(D,D) has no such pathological relationship
>>>> thus D correctly simulated by H1 is the behavior of D(D).
>>>
>>> OF course it is. The nature of the input doesn't affet the form of 
>>> the question that H is supposed to answer.
>>>
>>
>> The textbook asks the question.
>> The data cannot possibly do that.
>>
> 
> But the data doesn't need to do it, as the program specifictions define it.
> 

Did you know that the code itself cannot read these specifications?
The specifications say {draw a square circle}, the code says huh?

> Now, if H was supposed to be a "Universal Problem Decider", then we 

I don't have time for an infinite conversation.
H is ONLY defined to be a D decider.

> would need to somehow "encode" the goal of H determining that a correct 
> (and complete) simulation of its input would need to reach a final 
> state, but I see no issue with defining a way to encode that.
> 
>> You already said that H cannot possibly map its
>> input to the behavior of D(D).
> 
> Right, it is impossible for H to itself compute that 
> behavior and give an answer.
> 

NO !!! It is impossible for anyone or anything to provide
a correct answer to a question THAT THEY ARE NOT BEING ASKED.

> That doesn't mean we can't encode the question.
> 

Give it your best shot, it must be encoded in C.

>>
>> We need to stay focused on this one single point until you
>> fully get it. Unlike the other two respondents you do have
>> the capacity to understand this.
>>
>> You keep expecting H to read your computer science
>> textbooks.
>>
> 
> No, I expect its PROGRAMMER to have done that, 
> which clearly you haven't done.
> 
The spec says {CAD system that draws square circles}
The programmer say WTF!

> Programs don't read their requirements, the perform the actions they 
> were programmed to do, 

There is no way to encode H to even see the behavior of D(D)
when H and D have the pathological relationship.

That is the dumbed down version of H cannot map its finite
string x86 machine code to the behavior of D(D).

> and if the program is correct, it will get the 
> right answer. If it doesn't get the right answer, then the programmer 
> erred in saying it meet the requirements.
> 

Sure make a CAD system that draws square circles or you are fired.

You are failing to understand the notion of logically
impossible.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer