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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 09:52:34 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 6/15/24 8:14 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/15/2024 4:08 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 15.jun.2024 om 05:07 schreef olcott:
>>> On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>  > On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>  >>
>>>  >> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H computes
>>>  >> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to
>>>  >> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by
>>>  >> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the
>>>  >> behavior of the directly executed D(D)
>>>  >>
>>>  >
>>>  > Why? I don't claim it can.
>>>
>>> _D()
>>> [00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp
>>> [00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp
>>> [00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
>>> [00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D
>>> [00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>>> [00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D
>>> [00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H
>>> [00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08
>>> [00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax
>>> [00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17
>>> [00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax
>>> [00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c
>>> [00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001
>>> [00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp
>>> [00000d1d](01) c3          ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]
>>>
>>> If there is no mapping from the input to H(D,D) to the behavior
>>> of D(D) then H is not even being asked about the behavior of D(D).
>>> H has no obligation to answer questions *THAT IT IS NOT BEING ASKED*
>>>
>>
>> H does not answer questions. 
> 
> *Wrongo*
> In computability theory and computational complexity theory, a
> decision problem is a computational problem that can be posed
> as a yes–no question of the input values.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_problem

So, you agree that H doesn't need to "Understand" the question asked, 
just give the answer.

And, the yes-no question posed to a Halt Decider is: "Does the Machine 
represented by your input Halt when run?", so that is the question that 
H is supposed to answer.

And since D(D) will halt since H(D,D) returns 0, we can show that the 
mapping of (D,D) is to Yes, it halts, so H was wrong to say no.

> 
> 
>> It produces a result that must be interpreted. It is the programmer 
>> who is asked a question: Can you write a program with a result that 
>> can be interpreted as whether D halts or does not halt.
>>
>> You are confirming that no such program can be written. Which was to 
>> be expected, since there is a proof that no such program exists.
>>
>