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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 09:13:01 -0500
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On 6/15/2024 9:06 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 15.jun.2024 om 14:12 schreef olcott:
>> On 6/15/2024 4:03 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 14.jun.2024 om 22:46 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 6/14/2024 3:03 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 14.jun.2024 om 21:18 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 6/14/2024 2:00 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 14.jun.2024 om 14:49 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>> I ran the actual code to verify the facts.
>>>>>>>> HH1(DD,DD) does not have a pathological relationship to its input
>>>>>>>> thus this input terminates normally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your terminology is confusing. What you call a "pathological 
>>>>>>> relationship" is that H must simulate itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *CONVENTIONAL TERMINOLOGY*
>>>>>> For any program H that might determine whether programs halt, a
>>>>>> "pathological" program D, called with some input, can pass its own
>>>>>> source and its input to H and then specifically do the opposite of 
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> H predicts D will do. No H can exist that handles this case.
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that your simulator does not even reach the 
>>>>> "pathological" part of D. 
>>>>
>>>> That is not the problem that is the criterion measure of a solution.
>>>
>>> You are using the wrong criterion, because this wrong criterion also 
>>> also applies to other programs, without a "pathological" part.
>>>
>>>         int main()
>>>         {
>>>           return H(main, 0);
>>>         }
>>>
>>> where you proved that H reports a false negative.
>>>
>>> So, your criterion has no relation with "pathological" programs.
>>>
>>
>> This criteria works correctly for ALL input, including pathological
>> main(). 
> 
> You are twisting your own words,because main is not "pathological".
> You do not even understand you own definition of "pathological":
> 
> Op 14.jun.2024 om 21:18 schreef olcott:
>>
>> *CONVENTIONAL TERMINOLOGY*
>> For any program H that might determine whether programs halt, a
>> "pathological" program D, called with some input, can pass its own
>> source and its input to H and then specifically do the opposite of what
>> H predicts D will do. No H can exist that handles this case. 
> 
> No high level programming skills are needed to see that there is no part 
> where main 'then specifically do the opposite of what H predicts it will 
> do'.
> 
> It seems that you are changing the definition of "pathological" to 'any 
> program for which H returns a false negative', which then becomes a 
> tautology.
> 

Any function that calls H specifies recursive simulation.

>> Maybe if you were a PhD computer science professor you would
>> understand this.
> 
> Many people without a PhD understand your are continuously changing 
> definitions. No PhD needed. I am sorry for you if you don't grasp it.
> (Btw, I never refer to my PhD, because I think arguments should 
> convince, not authority.)

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer